Hey There,

Thanks for the powerusage info. Very handy to have around... I guess
I'll stick with 300GHz then... :) Personally I didn't know if there
would be any difference between 600kHz and 300kHz so I went with the
600kHz option. However, I just don't think 32kHz is possible.
Especially not if I want to implement sound as well.

And like Soeren says, the only thing I actually DO is use the
display. Remember it's a shoot'em up... Things flying around all over
which means that apart from some minor calculations and reading the
keys, all the routines I call use the display.

I'll just make it in 300kHz for now, and when it's done I'll see if
it's still playable in 32kHz. If it is, I can always rip out the wait
routines and see how things go...

Kay, thanx,

Tobias Keizer...
--- In vmu-dev@egroups.com, Brian Chapman <bchapman@s...> wrote:
> At 10/30/00 01:26 PM , Tobias_Keizer@y... wrote:
> > Anyways, I've got part of the game running now... I've got my
> > scrolling 'sky' and 'floor' (don't think too much of it) and
finally
> > my ship that moves around freely in this world... Now, question
time
> > again... I am currently working in the 600MHz mode for extra
speed.
>                                          ^^^^^^
> Yikes, surly you meant Kilo-Hz not MHz ;-)
>
>
> > I've read though, that this uses more battery power than the
subclock
> > mode. The question is, how much?!?
> >
> > As of now the game is still hella-fast, but then I've got no
enemy
> > routines and no (and thats the real bitch) sprite collision
> > detection. Then another this is, if I want to add SFX or Music,
as
> > far as I know I won't be able to change clock-speed without the
sound
> > routine making strange-glass-breaking noises.
> >
> > So anyways, the question... Is it okay to make a game that runs
in
> > 600MHz in the entire game, or would this use up way too much
battery
> > power? Apart from that, is there anyone that thinks all the above
can
> > be done (including sound) in subclock mode?
>
> Here is a quote from a document I saved off the net. I forget the
original
> URL. (My appologies to the author):
>
> :::: BEGIN QUOTE :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> Sören measured the power consumption at different speeds.
>
> watch: 0.25mA             sleep watch: 0.1mA
> getkeys 6MHz: 8.6mA       sleep 6MHz: 3.0mA
> getkeys 3MHz: 5.4mA       sleep 3MHz: 1.65mA
> getkeys 600Khz: 2.9mA     sleep 600Khz game: 0.55mA
> getkeys 300Khz: 2.4mA     sleep 300Khz game: 0.35mA
> getkeys 32kHz: 0.65mA     sleep 32kHz game: 0.15mA
> getkeys 16kHz: 0.65mA     sleep 16kHz game: 0.15mA
>
> As you can see, the 600kHz mode requires 4.5 times the power of the
32kHz
> mode. However, since it will run 18 times the instructions of the
slower
> speed, it is more power efficient. The batteries don't last very
long as
> it is, so you can't afford to waste power.
> :::: END QUOTE :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> I think the best thing is to stay in Subclock Mode (~32khz) and
only go
> into RC Mode (~600khz) when you absolutely need too. Perhaps when
you have
> a certain algo that really needs to be done quickly (and LCD access
> ofcourse).
>
> I'm still working on this myself so I'm mostly speculating here.

On Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 07:26:32PM -0000, Tobias_Keizer@... wrote:

> So anyways, the question... Is it okay to make a game that runs in
> 600MHz in the entire game, or would this use up way too much battery
> power? Apart from that, is there anyone that thinks all the above can
> be done (including sound) in subclock mode?

I currently have the same problem and I have decided to use the RC clock
mode for the inner frame drawing loop. But I use the HALT mode and a timer
interrupt to wake the processor up again when it is time for the next
frame, although the power requirements are still 2/3 compared to the
version without HALT mode (at 15 frames/second). Doing it in sub clock mode
is impossible for my program.

I have not done any sound yet, but I think I can adapt my sound playing
routine to play in the frame loop.

Another hint: The RC clock is not very stable, the tolerances are
-50%,+100% AFAIK, so you can get anything between 300KHz and 1.2MHz, my VM
runs at about 880KHz.  I use a calibration routine to compensate for this,
because my game gets extremly difficult if the speed is too fast. The only
problem I still have is that if the VM is too slow to keep the framerate
the game looks ugly and gets even more difficult, because not all situations
are computing intense.

Soeren

On Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 11:14:27PM -0000, John Maushammer wrote:

> Here's the hardware pins mapped to software ports:
>
> pin 9 = power out? The VMU resets if this is grounded

Its power in, directly connected to pin 1.

> I think the best thing is to stay in Subclock Mode (~32khz) and only go
> into RC Mode (~600khz) when you absolutely need too. Perhaps when you have
> a certain algo that really needs to be done quickly (and LCD access
> ofcourse).

Sega rules says that the RC mode should be used only when dealing with LCD
or the timer used to produce sound. Yet you can argue that most game engine
on a VM would be nearly everytime toying with the LCD..

At 10/30/00 01:26 PM , Tobias_Keizer@... wrote:
> Anyways, I've got part of the game running now... I've got my
> scrolling 'sky' and 'floor' (don't think too much of it) and finally
> my ship that moves around freely in this world... Now, question time
> again... I am currently working in the 600MHz mode for extra speed.
                                          ^^^^^^
Yikes, surly you meant Kilo-Hz not MHz ;-)


> I've read though, that this uses more battery power than the subclock
> mode. The question is, how much?!?
>
> As of now the game is still hella-fast, but then I've got no enemy
> routines and no (and thats the real bitch) sprite collision
> detection. Then another this is, if I want to add SFX or Music, as
> far as I know I won't be able to change clock-speed without the sound
> routine making strange-glass-breaking noises.
>
> So anyways, the question... Is it okay to make a game that runs in
> 600MHz in the entire game, or would this use up way too much battery
> power? Apart from that, is there anyone that thinks all the above can
> be done (including sound) in subclock mode?

Here is a quote from a document I saved off the net. I forget the original
URL. (My appologies to the author):

:::: BEGIN QUOTE :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Sören measured the power consumption at different speeds.

watch: 0.25mA             sleep watch: 0.1mA
getkeys 6MHz: 8.6mA       sleep 6MHz: 3.0mA
getkeys 3MHz: 5.4mA       sleep 3MHz: 1.65mA
getkeys 600Khz: 2.9mA     sleep 600Khz game: 0.55mA
getkeys 300Khz: 2.4mA     sleep 300Khz game: 0.35mA
getkeys 32kHz: 0.65mA     sleep 32kHz game: 0.15mA
getkeys 16kHz: 0.65mA     sleep 16kHz game: 0.15mA

As you can see, the 600kHz mode requires 4.5 times the power of the 32kHz
mode. However, since it will run 18 times the instructions of the slower
speed, it is more power efficient. The batteries don't last very long as
it is, so you can't afford to waste power.
:::: END QUOTE :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I think the best thing is to stay in Subclock Mode (~32khz) and only go
into RC Mode (~600khz) when you absolutely need too. Perhaps when you have
a certain algo that really needs to be done quickly (and LCD access
ofcourse).

I'm still working on this myself so I'm mostly speculating here.

At 10/30/00 04:25 PM , Omar Cornut wrote:
> Doesn't the Soul Calibur game play a "Namco" voice on beginning?
> Well, it's quite terrible, but better than a few beeps..

Intresting! I'll have to check that out at a friends house. I don't
actually have a Dreamcast or real VMU yet, just the emulator (softvms,
which doesn't support sound). Voice can be alot harder to make sound
correctly than lazers and explosions so maybe there's still some hope.
Perhaps it's time to give John's disassembler a work out. :-)

Hi everyone -

I know I've slowed down a bit, but I've got a neat little upcoming
project. Actually I thought the list was really slow, but I just found
out that my email people started blocking egroups, so I was releived
to find everyone still here.

The idea is to hook up 4 serial ports to the VMU! Three incoming
serial streams from KVH fibre optic gyros are to be muxed into one
IrDA output stream. I plan to use Maxim MAX3100 chips that are
basically SPI serial ports - they convert synchronous serial data
(like from the VMU) to asynchronous serial data (like a standard PC
port). Three of these chips will be input chips, one will be
configured in IrDA mode to drive an output. It's just amazing... I
considered using one of my old evaluation boards for various
processors, but none of them had FLASH memory, and none of them had a
great display.

Anyway, I did a little research and mapped out the software interface
to the VMU pins. To use these, you've got to connect pin 1 to 14 to
enable the output drivers (maybe this enables the inputs, too). Set
P1DDR to select the direction of each pin. My code didn't set P1, but
it should probably be set if you want to make the input pins be
internally pulled up (useful for buttons, just like P3 does). Also, if
you use the serial port, be careful. I'm not sure how it wrestles
control from the P1 port.

My testing so far is just inputs. I assume outputs will work, but I
haven't tested it yet. P1 should be both in and out; P7 is strictly
input only.

Here's the hardware pins mapped to software ports:

pin 1 = power in?
pin 2 = P7.0
pin 3 = P1.2
pin 4 = P1.1
pin 5 = P1.0
pin 6 = P7.3
pin 7 = ground
pin 8 = ground
pin 9 = power out? The VMU resets if this is grounded
pin 10 = P1.4
pin 11 = P1.3
pin 12 = P1.5
pin 13 = P7.2
pin 14 = power out, all the time.


The source used to discover this is pretty simple; if anyone wants
I'll send it.

-- john

>capable of producing a sine wave, much like the PC speaker. Just one tone
>at a time. Although it is possible to get 8 bit PCM audio on the PC
>speaker with some tricky programming, I highly doubt thats possible with
>the VMU.

Doesn't the Soul Calibur game play a "Namco" voice on beginning?
Well, it's quite terrible, but better than a few beeps..

Heya Guys,

Thanks a bundle for the memory info! It feels almost luxurious to
have all that memory all for my game... :) Imagine I was working with
the bytes inbetween in interupt addresses if they weren't used by a
system variable (just in case). You can imagine I was left with about
16 bytes of usable memory... Not easy...

Anyways, I've got part of the game running now... I've got my
scrolling 'sky' and 'floor' (don't think too much of it) and finally
my ship that moves around freely in this world... Now, question time
again... I am currently working in the 600MHz mode for extra speed.
I've read though, that this uses more battery power than the subclock
mode. The question is, how much?!?

As of now the game is still hella-fast, but then I've got no enemy
routines and no (and thats the real bitch) sprite collision
detection. Then another this is, if I want to add SFX or Music, as
far as I know I won't be able to change clock-speed without the sound
routine making strange-glass-breaking noises.

So anyways, the question... Is it okay to make a game that runs in
600MHz in the entire game, or would this use up way too much battery
power? Apart from that, is there anyone that thinks all the above can
be done (including sound) in subclock mode?

Your feedback would be appreciated...

Tobias "I'll take a Z80 anytime" Keizer

At 10/29/00 01:38 PM , Tobias_Keizer@... wrote:
> Heh,
>
> I'm trying to get a nemesis-type shoot-em-up game done, not too sure
> I'll be able to though... I almost for sure won't have cpu-time for
> SFX and just the basic routines including sprite collisions may even
> be too much for the 'processor'. Ah well, I'm just gonna give it a
> try. If there's any bit-graphicians out there reading this, please
> help... I'm having a horrible time with the gfx...
>
> P.S. anyone out there that knows how to do fast sfx for this thing?
> (including making them, that would be...)
>
> Toby (aka Jim)


Actually the LC86000 is quite a capable little processor. You might have
to be a little tricky at times, but you should be able to make a little
shooter just fine.

Soren Gust has a VMU sound engine with tools at:
http://soeren.infoserv.de/vm/

Keep in mind though, that the VMU "speaker" is only a peizo tweeter
capable of producing a sine wave, much like the PC speaker. Just one tone
at a time. Although it is possible to get 8 bit PCM audio on the PC
speaker with some tricky programming, I highly doubt thats possible with
the VMU.

At 10/30/00 11:06 AM , rednuht wrote:
> I have got my One armed bandit/fruit machine intro as a wavey text
> scroller.
> It has a SIN type wave only the wave its self also 'waves'.
> (Although i have all the GFX setup there is still no 'game' code)
> Damm im lazy

hehe, and I thought I was the only one who sat around making graphics long
before any game code. =) Well, I do have some nice scaling sprite effects
planned for my forthcoming racing game (mainly just for the title screen).

At 10/30/00 12:27 AM , Tobias_Keizer@... wrote:
> Was wondering if anyone knew... As far as I know the stack of the VMU
> starts at $0080, while the interrupt vectors don't go beyond $0050.
> Now, the million dollar question... Is the area of $50 - $7F free RAM
> in game mode?!?

Maybe one of the more difficult things to learn about the VMU is how the
memory works. It's broken up into multiple banks and areas. Each with
their own logical addressing. The stack does start at $80 but in RAM Bank
0 (aka: System RAM). RAM Bank 1 (aka: Game RAM, addresses: $10 - $FF) is
for use in your game. (addresses $00 - $0F are for used indirect
addressing). You can access System RAM by clearing the appropriate bit of
the PSW register if you really need to.

There is also Work RAM, two 256 byte banks that you may also use. It's
accesseble only via certain registers (VSEL/VRMAD/VTRBF) and can't be
addressed directly.

The vector table resides in Flash Bank 0 (aka: Game ROM). You create that
yourself with all those '.org' statements at the start of your assembly
file. (It resides in the same place with the rest of your code). All the
save game files for your DC games reside in Flash Bank 1. You can
read/write to Flash ROM by calling the appropriate BIOS (aka: Firmware)
routines.

The registers along with the LCD framebuffer reside in their own bank as
well.

John Maushammer's site has a nice graphic of the VMU memory map.
http://www.maushammer.com/vmu.html

Marcus Comstedt has great explanations of most of the registers.
http://marcus.mangakai.org/dc/vms/sfr.html

--- Tobias_Keizer@... wrote: > Hey you guys!
> Who's up for a good old Amiga-Style demo fight?!? Come one, let's see
> what you guys are all made of... Don't tell me I'm gonna have to be
> the first guy out there that makes the good-old sinus scroll for VMU?
>
> Greetz,
>
> Toby (aka Jim)

I have got my One armed bandit/fruit machine intro as a wavey text
scroller.
It has a SIN type wave only the wave its self also 'waves'.
(Although i have all the GFX setup there is still no 'game' code)
Damm im lazy





=====
Later ...

rednuht@...
-+-..=|<[{(_"!"_)}]>|=..-+-


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--- Kris Genthe <kgenthe@...> wrote: > What projects are you
all working on?
>

In case you missed any of my posts, Im currently working (not very
fast) on a one armed bandit/fruit machine simluator.
( for some obscure reason i though it would be quick, simple and easy,
Doh).
I have currently only got the layout and a scrolly intro working.


=====
Later ...

rednuht@...
-+-..=|<[{(_"!"_)}]>|=..-+-


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>Was wondering if anyone knew... As far as I know the stack of the VMU
>starts at $0080, while the interrupt vectors don't go beyond $0050.

Stack is located in RAM Bank 0 at $80 to $FF. In case of an interrupt etc.
the program counter is set to the defined value (so no real vector here)
and executes the code at that location in the flash ROM.

>Now, the million dollar question... Is the area of $50 - $7F free RAM
>in game mode?!?

Normally you can use $00-$FF of Bank 1 (default in program mode), but keep
in mind that $00-$0F are used for indirect address registers (@Rx)!

Regards,
Vincent

In theory, yes, unless it there for something else. There is only one
way to find out...

--- In vmu-dev@egroups.com, Tobias_Keizer@y... wrote:
> Heya Guys,
>
> Was wondering if anyone knew... As far as I know the stack of the
VMU
> starts at $0080, while the interrupt vectors don't go beyond $0050.
>
> Now, the million dollar question... Is the area of $50 - $7F free
RAM
> in game mode?!?
>
> Please reply if you know (or think you do)... It'd help a bundle...
>
> Thanx,
>     Toby

Heya Guys,

Was wondering if anyone knew... As far as I know the stack of the VMU
starts at $0080, while the interrupt vectors don't go beyond $0050.

Now, the million dollar question... Is the area of $50 - $7F free RAM
in game mode?!?

Please reply if you know (or think you do)... It'd help a bundle...

Thanx,
     Toby

Heh,

I'm trying to get a nemesis-type shoot-em-up game done, not too sure
I'll be able to though... I almost for sure won't have cpu-time for
SFX and just the basic routines including sprite collisions may even
be too much for the 'processor'. Ah well, I'm just gonna give it a
try. If there's any bit-graphicians out there reading this, please
help... I'm having a horrible time with the gfx...

P.S. anyone out there that knows how to do fast sfx for this thing?
(including making them, that would be...)

Toby (aka Jim)

--- In vmu-dev@egroups.com, Brian Chapman <bchapman@s...> wrote:
> At 10/28/00 04:39 PM , Kris Genthe wrote:
> > What projects are you all working on?
> > I'm working on a R/C Pro Am type clone.
> > I just thought it would be neat to see what everyone else is
working
> > on.
>
> Well, I have two games in the works. One is an RPG and another is a
Racing
> game. I'm concentraiting on the racing game at the moment for the
Kalechi
> contest that was previously mentioned. I'll probably blab more
about them
> as I get some more coding done.

At 10/28/00 04:39 PM , Kris Genthe wrote:
> What projects are you all working on?
> I'm working on a R/C Pro Am type clone.
> I just thought it would be neat to see what everyone else is working
> on.

Well, I have two games in the works. One is an RPG and another is a Racing
game. I'm concentraiting on the racing game at the moment for the Kalechi
contest that was previously mentioned. I'll probably blab more about them
as I get some more coding done.

Hey you guys!

Who's up for a good old Amiga-Style demo fight?!? Come one, let's see
what you guys are all made of... Don't tell me I'm gonna have to be
the first guy out there that makes the good-old sinus scroll for VMU?

Greetz,

Toby (aka Jim)

What projects are you all working on?

I'm working on a R/C Pro Am type clone.

I just thought it would be neat to see what everyone else is working
on.

.. or at least the one that is part of the PSO Special Edition pack in
Japan

http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/26843.html

Looks pretty cool!  Shame that it's not *visual* :(

rednuht wrote:
>
> Kalechi Contest ( Vmu Contest)
>
> http://jaovmu.virtualave.net/news.htm

Seems interesting... That's not that I really want to win a VMU, but
it's the challenge which is interesting... It gives a goal and a dead
line, much like a demo party. I think I'll try to come up with something
:)

>
> but hurry we only have until 6th of December to enter !

Yeah, that's short. That's why it may be fun :)

--
Antoine 'MORB' Chavasse / CdBS Software

Kalechi Contest ( Vmu Contest)

http://jaovmu.virtualave.net/news.htm

but hurry we only have until 6th of December to enter !

=====
Later ...

rednuht@...
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After you shut your DC off, take a look at the VMus in the
controller. The screen stays on for quite some time (5 minutes). That
drains batteries. So if you play your DC 5 times a day, you're
wasting about 25 minutes. Times that by seven days... And, you get
the pictures. Just press sleep on the VMUs.

--- In vmu-dev@egroups.com, leo@m... wrote:
> > BAck when the Dreamcast was first released Sega replied to the
> > overwelling number of these 'complaints' with 'just put the
> > battery tab back in when not in use' but of course everyone had
> > thrown them away by then (i use  home made bent bit of plastic)
> > cos there is nothing in the manual saying otherwise.
>
>  That is not entirely correct. The manual states that you
>  should not leave the VMU plugged into your dreamcast
>  controller when not playing.
>
>  Leo.

> BAck when the Dreamcast was first released Sega replied to the
> overwelling number of these 'complaints' with 'just put the
> battery tab back in when not in use' but of course everyone had
> thrown them away by then (i use  home made bent bit of plastic)
> cos there is nothing in the manual saying otherwise.

	 That is not entirely correct. The manual states that you
	 should not leave the VMU plugged into your dreamcast
	 controller when not playing.

	 Leo.

I got 30 VMU batteries for a mere $9 at ebay. Now I don't really have
to worry about the problems :) Anyhoo, I suggest you all stock up
since they are so cheap. They are around $2 a pop at my local Wal-
Mart, and paying $.33 is SOOOO much easyer on the wallet.

--- In vmu-dev@egroups.com, Omar Cornut <cornut@c...> wrote:
> Thanks to both of you for your answers.
> I know understand the problem - I've heard some time ago about
> battery loosing their power very quickly in certain cases and
> that's probably what it was about.
>
> I'll think about it if ever I have to write some piece of code
> for the Dreamcast to display screens on the VM.
>
> Later,
> Omar

Thanks to both of you for your answers.
I know understand the problem - I've heard some time ago about
battery loosing their power very quickly in certain cases and
that's probably what it was about.

I'll think about it if ever I have to write some piece of code
for the Dreamcast to display screens on the VM.

Later,
Omar

At 10/22/00 12:16 PM , Omar Cornut wrote:
> > well thats good but what about the battery problem?
> > nowhere in the vmu manual does it say to reapply the battery tab!! so
> > noone does and there batteries run out in no time.
>
> What problem are you talking about ?!

There's a known design flaw in the VMU that allows it continue to draw
battery power even while docked into the Dreamcast. It's exploited by some
poorly written programs that are used to display pictures while you play
certain games. They often leave the clock running in RC or Main Clock Mode
(and for no good reason).

The work around is simply to re-insert the battery tab that came with your
VMU when you put your VMU back into the the Dreamcast.

Atleast that's the way I understand it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Brian James Chapman            (aka: antigrav - irc.openprojects.net)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "Do you want to make people's heads explode? Sure -- we all do!..."
                                                  -Dr. Forrester, MST3K

--- Omar Cornut <cornut@...> wrote: > > well thats good but
what about the battery problem?
> > nowhere in the vmu manual does it say to reapply the battery tab!!
> so
> > noone does and there batteries run out in no time.
>
> What problem are you talking about ?!


  the biggest response i am getting from 'the masses' (dreamcast
bbs's/chat rooms etc) in regaurds to getting vmu games is, they have
had the dreamcast/vmu for less than two months and the thing always
beeps when they turn on the dreamcast, indicating the batteries are
dead.
BAck when the Dreamcast was first released Sega replied to the
overwelling number of these 'complaints' with 'just put the battery tab
back in when not in use' but of course everyone had thrown them away by
then (i use  home made bent bit of plastic) cos there is nothing in the
manual saying otherwise.

People do not want vmu games if there vmu is dead.

This was all over Booyaka when it started and i think Alexander was
Segas voice.


=====
Later ...

rednuht@...
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