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*                              Rules                                 *
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     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
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     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

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     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
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     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
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    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
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  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

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     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
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*                              Rules                                 *
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  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

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     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
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*                              Rules                                 *
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  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
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        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
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*                              Rules                                 *
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  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

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     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
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        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

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**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
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  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
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**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
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        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
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**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Brett,

   > I totally understand Pete, but couldn't you just let it sit here?

Well, I don't mind. I'm quite happy to leave this list here if that's what
people want...?

   >....I kind of forgot if this group was specific to one project or not....

Nope, it's for all things Vectrex....

   >....Or you could just close it down but leave the previous posts archived
   >at egroups (if that's possible). There's a lot of info there that someone
   >may want to come across by chance someday.

That's not possible AFAIK, best thing is if I just leave this group going.

See you later.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--

Just a quick note to let everyone know that I'm closing down this mailing
list now.

It's been fun, if a little quiet for the last few months. I'm sure I'll see
all of you in the Vectrex newsgroup.


Have fun, and have a good Christmas.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Hi guys, I'm sorry but due to the extreme personal problems I've had this
>year I just don't have *any* time to spend on Vectrex related matters or
>this mailing list.
>
>If anyone would like to take this list over and get it going again then
drop
>me an email and we'll sort something out. Otherwise I'll be closing down
the
>list as from the 1st of December.
>
>It's been fun (if a little quiet lately) and I'm sure I'll bump into you
all
>from time to time over in the newsgroup.


I totally understand Pete, but couldn't you just let it sit here? I kind of
forgot if this group was specific to one project or not, but posts might pop
up in the future. FWIW, I haven't had a post on my web site message board
since July 2000. Or you could just close it down but leave the previous
posts archived at egroups (if that's possible). There's a lot of info there
that someone may want to come across by chance someday.

Anyhoo, take care Pete.

Sincerely,
Brett Walach


/*******************************\
|*  "Brett's Vectrex Preserve"
|*  http://www.inil.com/users/vectrex/
|*  Vectrex@...
|*  Hangout @ Rec.Games.Vectrex
\*******************************/

Hi guys, I'm sorry but due to the extreme personal problems I've had this
year I just don't have *any* time to spend on Vectrex related matters or
this mailing list.

If anyone would like to take this list over and get it going again then drop
me an email and we'll sort something out. Otherwise I'll be closing down the
list as from the 1st of December.

It's been fun (if a little quiet lately) and I'm sure I'll bump into you all
from time to time over in the newsgroup.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--

**********************************************************************
*                              Rules                                 *
**********************************************************************

  This message constitutes the monthly posting of rules for this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

     1. This is a pretty laid back mailing list. Help keep it
        that way by staying mellow.

     2. Try to keep on topic.

     3. NO flaming or bad language please.

     4. Positively NO eBay adverts.

     5. No spam/commercial advertising.

     6. "For Sale" and "Wanted" postings are permissible as long
        as they relate directly to development issues.

        For example, advertising a console and/or cartridges
        would not be allowed.

        However, selling cartridge boards/cases or Vectrex parts
        useful for projects/repairs would be permissible.

     7. There is nooooo rule 7.

     8. When the moderator goes into "Monty Python" mode, just
        ignore him.... :-)

     9. Messages should be in plain text, absolutely *NO* HTML (not
        all of us can handle HTML formatted mail).

    10. File attachments are permitted so long as they are not
        unreasonably large and have some relevance to the topic
        under discussion.

        Examples would be sample source code, "demos" of games
        people are working on etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Any problems/comments to "vectrex_dev-owner@egroups.com".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

   > My condolences Pete.  Take your time, as always family is more
   >important than anything else. We will see you when you return.
   >Again I'm sure I speak for the whole vectrex community, our condolences
   >are with you!

Thanks, to you and those who emailed me privately.


Umm, I'm not exactly back yet....just mostly lurking for the time being.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--

My condolences Pete.  Take your time, as always family is more important
than anything else. We will see you when you return.  Again I'm sure I speak
for the whole vectrex community, our condolences are with you!

Mike Danick


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Pachla" <peter.pachla@...>
To: "Vectrex Development" <vectrex_dev@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: [vectrex_dev] Bad news


> I'm going to be disappearing from here and RGV for a time.
>
> Unfortunately my mother passed away a few hours ago after a long illness,
so
> I'm not really in the mood for much of anything at the moment.
>
>
> I expect I'll see you guys again in a week or so. Bye for now.
>
>
>   TTFN - Pete.
>
> --
> Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
> Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp
DEC)
>
> peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'm going to be disappearing from here and RGV for a time.

Unfortunately my mother passed away a few hours ago after a long illness, so
I'm not really in the mood for much of anything at the moment.


I expect I'll see you guys again in a week or so. Bye for now.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--

Re: Joystick port question

>>BTW What's the current status of the Vectrex LRTF controller - was anything
finalised, has anyone made any? <<

I have an LRTF controller that I made ... just 4 buttons side by side ...  Plus
it has 9 pin ports for additional controllers ...  I can plug in the Vectrex
Paddle, Trakball, Atari controllers into it ...

Rob M.  acCIS on the fly!

>the other big development towards speedier code is to not call after
>every object is drawn

Should read:

>the other big development towards speedier code is to not reset0ref call
>after every object is drawn


Sigh...

I am so not a hardware guy, but if anybody's gonna do this, it's probably
someone on this list...

(My appologies to everyone who's heard this a hundred times already but I
haven't mentioned it in a long while...)

It's my understanding that the Vectrex can both received AND send data through
the joystick sports - Obviously it inputs data from the joystick, but it also
outputs data to the 3D goggles to tell the motor to spin faster (as needed).

That being the cases, it should be possible to exploit this bi-directional
channel for other purposes. Like, a Vectrex link cable... It should be
possible to connect two Vectrex through the second joystick port and have then
send/receive data to and from each other. It doesn't really matter what
exact form this data takes as long as we can develop some sort of software
protocol to turn it into a bitstream. It wouldn't have to be a huge
baudrate, just enough to share simple positional data (I expect 100 bps
would be plenty) so we could have, say, a two player Battlezone game,
running on two Vectrex with both Vectrex operating in the same virtual
world....

Sure, there aren't _a lot_ of people with multiple Vectrex, but many of
the "hardcore" have several and I'm sure if there were some killer
"head to head" games like such a Battlezone more people would get a second
unit. Even if not, there's always the possibility of club meeting,
conventions, etc...

At any rate, I'd write code for such a link!

I'm not sure it's such a good idea... My feeling is it's trying to turn a
vector system into a raster system and I'm not sure it's really worth the
hoops you need to jump through.

Firstly, you're going to need some kind of general plotting routine that
will handle ALL drawing, sequentially. Otherwise you're going to run into
problems trying to set up to draw something new while something else is
already being drawn. The problem with such a general drawing routine is
that it's hard to optimise for specific instances, particularly where you
want to draw a bunch of stuff in series without doing a reset0ref. And you
already got the added overhead of both this routine and whatever it takes
to set up this routine (ie: You're going to need some sort of table of
data for all these "sprites" or at the very least a table of (X,Y) co-ords
pointers to the actual drawing data where previously most of this would
have been in ROM).

I did write a general "sprite" routine, long ago. I don't use it. Too much
overhead, too awkward, too slow for practical purposes...

The biggest problem goign with an interrupt driven drawing routine is the
timing of it all and the very nature of a vector display. Unlike a raster
system where you can just shove some values into some sprite or character
registers or memory and forget about it you have to constantly redraw the
vector screen. In a highly optimised game, with a lot of stuff onscreen, I
could see the pen moving/drawing during upwards of 95% of CPU cycles.
However, at other times when there's not a lot of stuff onscreen, the pen
will be moving/drawing hardly at all. So how do you set up your timing for
your non-drawing routines? Either you've got to also set up a timer
interrupt to call time sensitive routines (ie: routines to move a ship or
move a shot) that need to be called every tenth of a second (or whatever)
or you're back to using waitrecal for your timing. In which case what's
the real difference from what we're doing now?

I'm not saying it can't be done, or it might not be a good thing. I'm just
not sure what the real advantages are - You don't have to wait for the
timer interrupt to tell you when you're done drawing. Well, you don't have
to already...

Peter Pachla wrote:

>I haven't done too much digging myself yet, but Chris cites the "Moveto_d"
>and "Draw_Line_d" routines as specific examples of EXEC routines which wait
>until the interrupt flag goes true.

Yes.

What all these routines do, is begin the drawing or moving the pen, set
the timer, and

        ldb  #$40
label: bitb $D00D
        beq  label

Until the timer's done and then continue with the rest of the
program.

Chris's big breakthrough is to execute code instead of
just waiting for the timer interrupt... If I'm not mistaken,
the duration of the timer is the scale factor used in
the draw or move ($d004) - If the scale factor is #$7f, then
the wait is #$7f cycles (less whatever cycles it took
from the starting for the timer to the end of the draw routine).

Since you should normally be doing most of your drawing at a
low scale (for speed) this is generally most usefull when
used with move_pen_d (which often uses a scale #$7f) or
when drawing long lines. In these cases, quite a few extra cycles
can be recovered for non-drawing use (ie: If you have 10 "alien craft"
(or whatever) and each one is positioned independently after
a call to reset0ref you could recover about 1200 cycles (approx 126*10)
by burying code into these wait states.

The only real problem is predictability - If there's a chance there's
going to be less than 10 "alien craft" on screen, you have to find
a way to make sure that buried code still gets executed even if
nothing is drawn... I've though of (but never implemented) a general
handling routine which would have a table of subroutines which need
to be called. Each time a "wait state" is encountered, this handling
routine would be called to fetch the next subroutine, which would then
be executed. Once all drawing is done, then any remaining routines
could be called. The problem there is again one of predictability - You need
a routine that will fit into the duration of the "wait state" nicely.
Suce a handling routine would work well if all the scale factors are
#$7f so all the subroutines could be tailored to being about 120 cycles
in length, but, for shorter/longer (variable) waits you may want to custom
fit code...

The other big development towards speedier code is to not call after every
object is drawn. A good example of this is Kristof's Galaxians where several
(all? Haven't looked that close) aliens are drawn right after each other
without a call to reset0ref.

Hi Brett,

   >>....section on how the vector/dot plotting routines work and was
   >>struck by his explanation of how inefficient they are.
   >>
   >> It strikes me that the routines could be greatly improved by making
   >>them interrupt driven....

   > I could dig out the programming manuals, but I thought I'd just ask
   >here.... ....So you are saying that some routine (WaitRecal?) is
   >"polling" an interrupt flag? Instead of actually using the interrupts?

Yes.

I haven't done too much digging myself yet, but Chris cites the "Moveto_d"
and "Draw_Line_d" routines as specific examples of EXEC routines which wait
until the interrupt flag goes true.

   >....Oh brother...I guess if that's true, a ton of optimiztion can be
   >done just by using interrupts....

Absolutely, though it would need a bit of care in the implementation to be
sure that no other routine decided to access the 6522 while the electron
beam is in motion - which is my guess as to why the programmer(s) did it
this way in the first place.

After all, not just the vector plotting/positioning routines would be
affected. At the very least, the sound/music and joystick routines would
also need to be changed.

   >....Chris' already implementing some techniques to sneak code in while
   >they were waiting for the WaitRcl routine to finish?

Yes, the technique he used was to copy the routine into his own program and
modify it such that it performs a number of other operations, while the beam
is in motion, before getting to the wait loop.

It's a really good hack, in that it's simple and very effective.

   >....I know that's not the same as interrupts, and interrupts should be
   >much easier to use.

In theory, yes. Just somewhat time consuming to implement....but then you
only need to do it once.


BTW The reason I started looking at this /IRQ stuff in the first place was
because I was looking for a better way of structuring my code.

I'm used to working with Atari systems like the 7800 and 8-bit computers (as
well as tinkering with the code from their vector arcade games). All of
these platforms share the same concept in terms of their displays, you have
a simple co-processor attached to your main processor which you program via
a "display list" to generate your screen.

Since I always tend to structure my data in a manner lends itself well to
this approach I thought I'd try implementing such a co-processor in
software, driven by a regular interrupt. I haven't looked into this very far
yet, but I think it's doable - and interrupt driven plotting would fit in
quite nicely.


   > Yep, you've gotta have a dedicated EPROM programmer set up just in
   >case of an emergency ;)

I'm going to HAVE to find the time soon to fix one of mine - as I've
probably said before, the "S3" has a dead battery pack and my PC based
programmer stopped working when I upgraded from a '386 to a '486 (I suspect
it's a bus speed issue).

Still, I'm hoping to be able to find the time to sort this out in the next
day or two.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--

Hi Brett,

   > Win95, 98, NT (Sweet, DOS sux)

Interesting, I particularly like the fact it'll run under NT. I've been
trying to switch across to NT for well over a year now (I find Win'9x too
unstable), but keep finding essential bits of software which won't run under
NT - like DVE. :-(


   <Eagle CAD>
   > Is that the PCB software that you can DL for free?

That's the one.

   > I heard it has some limitations on the number of tracks and
   >holes...will that present a problem?

The main limitations of the "hobby" version are that you cannot design
multi-layer PCBs (you're limited to a top and bottom layer for your tracks),
maximum board size is limited to a half-Eurocard and there are, as you say,
some limits on numbers of holes and on numbers of gates/ICs.

There may be one or two other limitations, but I haven't looked at that part
of the documentation for several months - I could dig up the docs and email
them to you if you want?

None of these limitations have presented me with any problems whilst
designing my cartridge boards.


   >> True, but what I really wanted to do was make the schematic and board
   >>layouts available....
   >
   > This sounds like a good idea, but I doubt many people will just tweak
   >the design a little....

You're probably right actually.

I think what I'll end up doing is finding some way to capture the schematics
as ".gif"s and just put those up.


   >>Is OrCad freely distributable BTW?
   >
   > Nope, it's kind of expensive too....

Actually, I think I'm confusing "OrCad" with "pSPICE"....the package I was
thinking of was being distributed as shareware via FidoNet around 1990. It
was big too, but then again at 2400bps most things seem big.... ;-)


   >> Actually, this sent me thinking about the autorouter in EAGLE.
   >>
   >> Basically, it's crap! It makes such a meal of routing even a simple
   >>board....
   >
   > So true, autorouters are nice for some things...but it really doesn't
   >take a long time or a lot of effort to route the PCB by hand.

Quite, the way the cartridge connector is laid out, as long as you position
the ROM/EPROM horizontally in the centre of the board, the majority of
tracks will run straight down the board to the appropriate pins on the
connector.

EAGLE's autorouter runs them all over the board, and through it several
times....NONE of the tracks should need to pass through the PCB in theory.

I must admit I haven't tried out routing tracks manually yet in EAGLE, I
can't imagine it being too difficult though.


   TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@...            | www.wintermute.org.uk
--