How about a cart with a dedicated 3D processor, much like how the FX chip
worked in Starfox.  Software can achieve that scale effect on the GBA
already.  Imagine how great it would be if we had an add-on chip.

Or an FPU.  That alone would be worth it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Porth" <matthew@...>
To: <gbadev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:12 AM
Subject: [gbadev] GBA2 - Light hearted speculation...


> Well.. Of course it isn't coming any time soon but who fancies a little
> light hearted speculation after the Nintendo = Facist Bastards wrangling
(my
> take - you don't like it.... change the channel....)
>
> What do you reckon.....
>
> Must haves
> $ 4 times increase in clock speed for the ARM code 2^26Mhz
> $ VRAM up to 160Kbytes for double buffered 15 bit display.
> $ Incremental increase in video hardware - probably no real change to
> sprites but certainly add modes to allow overlayed bitmap modes.
>
> Potential Merit
> $ Increase internal memory to 512 or 1MByte.
> $ Backlit screen.
> $ Add logic to the video chip to do automatic 8:8:8:8 to 1:5:5:5 pixel
> format conversion when VRAM is written to. This has other possibilites to
> such as automatic alpha blending or z buffering without actual 3D
hardware.
> $ Perhaps change the link port to be able to handle modem or ethernet
> activity.
>
> Completely unlikely
> $ TV Output
> $ 3D googles plug in...
> $ Detachable keyboard..
> $ Integrated Mobile Phone (or.... perhaps.... It'd sell a lot of phones!)
>
> Just wonderin' :) Anyone got better ideas?
>
> www.freshbrains.co.uk - Tools n' Toys
>
>
>
>
> list rules: http://www.gbadev.org/rules.txt
> unsubscribe: gbadev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Talking of MBV2 - has anyone apart from Jeff worked out the multiboot
encryption protocol - I have some ideas for extending the MB and would
rather not go through all the headaches that someone cleverer than me has
already had :0).

Dave

[cropped by mod]

Well.. Of course it isn't coming any time soon but who fancies a little
light hearted speculation after the Nintendo = Facist Bastards wrangling (my
take - you don't like it.... change the channel....)

What do you reckon.....

Must haves
$ 4 times increase in clock speed for the ARM code 2^26Mhz
$ VRAM up to 160Kbytes for double buffered 15 bit display.
$ Incremental increase in video hardware - probably no real change to
sprites but certainly add modes to allow overlayed bitmap modes.

Potential Merit
$ Increase internal memory to 512 or 1MByte.
$ Backlit screen.
$ Add logic to the video chip to do automatic 8:8:8:8 to 1:5:5:5 pixel
format conversion when VRAM is written to. This has other possibilites to
such as automatic alpha blending or z buffering without actual 3D hardware.
$ Perhaps change the link port to be able to handle modem or ethernet
activity.

Completely unlikely
$ TV Output
$ 3D googles plug in...
$ Detachable keyboard..
$ Integrated Mobile Phone (or.... perhaps.... It'd sell a lot of phones!)

Just wonderin' :) Anyone got better ideas?

www.freshbrains.co.uk - Tools n' Toys

surely, the fact it mentions that it can play simple games may mean it can
just access the ram ( doesn't ) the linker allow you to do this

*** -----Original Message-----
*** From: Mike Parks [mailto:biggierp@...]
*** Sent: 02 November 2001 14:22
*** To: gbadev@yahoogroups.com
*** Subject: Re: [gbadev] GBA Game Downloader by Pelican Accessories
***
***
*** Actually, I'm thinking that if it comes w/ a cable to
*** upload games, it may be more of a MBV2-type of util.
*** Send over the cable to the cart, cart stores in some
*** sort of ram. Purely speculation but it may just be
*** that. Guess I'll find out when I get mine.
***
*** --
*** -Mike "BigRedPimp" Parks
*** http://berzerk.pocketheaven.com/ - Berzerk Legends
*** homepage
***
***
*** -
*** --- James Boulton <jim@...>
*** wrote:
*** > > Looks to be a good dev tool. I'll be picking one
*** > up from a
*** > > Gamestop-branded store tomorrow since they have
*** > some in-stock
*** > > (compared to EB) and probably will post my
*** > "review" here.
*** >
*** > Does look nice, but it will only run GBC roms. A
*** > proper AGB version would be
*** > very nice, especially that cheap! :o)
*** >
*** > --Jim
***
***
*** list rules: http://www.gbadev.org/rules.txt
*** unsubscribe: gbadev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
***
***
***
*** Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
*** http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
***
***
***
*** ____________________________________________________________
*** _________
*** This message has been checked for all known viruses by
*** UUNET delivered
*** through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further
*** information visit
*** http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/
***

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered
through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit
http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/

Actually, I'm thinking that if it comes w/ a cable to
upload games, it may be more of a MBV2-type of util.
Send over the cable to the cart, cart stores in some
sort of ram. Purely speculation but it may just be
that. Guess I'll find out when I get mine.

--
-Mike "BigRedPimp" Parks
http://berzerk.pocketheaven.com/ - Berzerk Legends
homepage


-
--- James Boulton <jim@...>
wrote:
> > Looks to be a good dev tool. I'll be picking one
> up from a
> > Gamestop-branded store tomorrow since they have
> some in-stock
> > (compared to EB) and probably will post my
> "review" here.
>
> Does look nice, but it will only run GBC roms. A
> proper AGB version would be
> very nice, especially that cheap! :o)
>
> --Jim

Bob Sabiston wrote:
> directory, but it seems like most of the tutorial makefiles use armcc and
> armlink, etc, which is not part of gcc.  Are there any tutorials out there

They're prolly set up for ARM's compiler then. If you have access to a
Unix box or a cygwin environment you can try my arm2gnu assembler (.s)
file convertor (see URL in sig). If it's just .c files you /might/ be
able to change the names of the commands in the make/batch files to gcc
equivalents and compile them that way.

eg:
armlink -> ld
armasm -> as
armcc -> gcc

> I'm assuming I have a different compiler than the ones all the tutorials
> use.

I don't know if they're the kind of examples you're after but my elite
and bezier demos are aimed at GNU tools, so you may get them to compile
under Windows/GCC - they work under Linux/GCC...

HTH, Pete
--
http://bits.bris.ac.uk/dooby/

Rebecca Lovelace wrote:
> Next question, where can I get the correct copy of crtbegin.o?  It's not in
> my distribution, I tried DL-ing the c and c++ versions just in case and it
> was in neither.

  You can probably get it in DevKitAdvance.

> What does crtbegin.o do? What was it compiled from?

  I believe it is used for C++ constructor setup, etc.

> Finally, what is the story with crt0.s?  It seems to set things up and
> branch to your C code, so is it required in all GCC projects?

I've added another FAQ below.

http://www.devrs.com/gba/files/gbadevfaqs.php#StartUp

Q: What are crt0.S/lnkscript (GCC) and start.s (SDT/ADS) used for in a project?
A: crt0.S and start.s (sometimes start.asm) both have similar functions.
-They are mainly designed to execute assembly code that occurs before
-user compiled code is executed; usually for initialization purposes.
-(Sometimes these files will contain other assembly code as well like
-interrupt support, etc.) The most common usage is to set uninitialized
-global variable RAM to 0 and to copy initialized global variables from
-ROM to RAM. A bare minimum crt0.S or start.s file must at least contain
-a branch to the start of compiled code, even if it contains nothing else.
-(The S of crt0.s is often capitalized because the GCC docs
-mention that it must be this way if you ever wish to run the GCC
-preprocessor on this file.)
-
-lnkscript is a linker script used by GCC that tells the linker where to
-put various sections (.text/.data/.rodata/.iwram/etc..) in the GBA
-memory map. Often a particular crt0.s and lnkscript may be designed
-to work together so they are often distributed together. Some GCC
-compilers (i.e. DevKitAdvance) may include a default lnkscript
-compiled into the compiler itself which will be used if the user
-doesn't specify a lnkscript file.

  Jeff

> Looks to be a good dev tool. I'll be picking one up from a
> Gamestop-branded store tomorrow since they have some in-stock
> (compared to EB) and probably will post my "review" here.

Does look nice, but it will only run GBC roms. A proper AGB version would be
very nice, especially that cheap! :o)

--Jim

Not sure if anyone has seen this but:
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=209470

Looks to be a good dev tool. I'll be picking one up from a
Gamestop-branded store tomorrow since they have some in-stock
(compared to EB) and probably will post my "review" here.

--
-Mike "BigRedPimp" Parks
http://berzerk.pocketheaven.com/ - Berzerk Legends homepage

Have any of you heard of this??   Seems intresting.. can anybody shed some
light onto this product, or point me in the right direction

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=209470

Orlando

Hey,
   I've been looking at the various tutorials on how to get started with the
compiler, sources etc.  I downloaded and installed gcc on my machine
(windows 98).  I have trouble running the makefiles--all the commands are
not defined.  I tried running a .bat file that sets my path for the gcc
directory, but it seems like most of the tutorial makefiles use armcc and
armlink, etc, which is not part of gcc.  Are there any tutorials out there
that use gcc?  Is it easy to modify the existing ones for this compiler?
I'm assuming I have a different compiler than the ones all the tutorials
use.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Bob

Thanks for saying what a lot of the other guys think Dave!

Deurk.

[moderator note: i agree, take it off list. i'll no longer approve any messages
on this subject. As far as im concerned this is not the place for it.]

You should have the "right" to create a game without jumping through any
damn hoops for Nintendo?  Yeah, right.  And I should have the right to play
football for Liverpool :)  Why should personal reasons, such as hating a
company, stand in the way of making a game that works on their hardware.  If
it's the best format for a game then it should be done on that platform.
Yes, true that it's harder for small companies to do well because of the
restrictions Nintendo have, but where is this ANY different from any other
line of business?  It isn't.  Large comapnies ALWAYS tend to have the most
miserable employees, simply because they can't give evreyone the same level
of attention, and large copanies always give the small ones hassle.  Sure
there are some good large companies out there.

The reason this industry isn't as creative and exciting as it used to be is
because it's a bigger more mature market, with more astute buyers at the end
of it all, so the risk factor has gone up for all developers and publishers.
If you have an idea that's good enough for the market, no matter what it is,
some publisher out there will take it on, risk or not, and if you present a
nearly finished game, the risk is a lot lower for a publisher, and the
chances of getting it published are higher.  If you present a finished game
and no-one wants to publish, face it, the game isn't good enough.  Plain and
simple.

The thing though, it's not just Nintendo.  You have to fill in forms for
both Sony and Microsoft to become approved developers, even if a publisher
is prepared to buy the development kits for a developer.  The developer
still has to be approved.  Just in the case of Sony it's a lot easier
because they were at least a lot less discerning about who they let on
board.  Look at all the absolute rubbish that appeared on PS1.  OK, there
were some GREAT games, not disputing that, but a lot of crap also.  Now look
at N64 as another example.  When top 10 games lists are compiled, I bet
there's at least 3 N64 games in there.  Another thing is they wouldn't have
the best selling piece of game hardware in the world if they didn't know
what they were doing would they.

Quite a number of the Nintendo censorship issues as well are to cut down on
controversial issues.  I remember back on both the Megadrive and SNES the
Hell levels had to be removed from Worms, as did the crosses when the worms
died.  These were turned into tombstones.  This was simply because Nintendo
and Sega would not allow anything with religious overtones into any of their
games.  Sure this got toned down later, but it just saves Mrs. X phoning up
and complaining, and maintains their image as really being a family company.

If you don't want to develop for Nintendo platforms, why bitch about them?
Just go and work on WonderSwan or something.  The bottom line is Nintendo do
what they do, and are successful.  Why try and fix it if it isn't broken?  I
for one think the quality over quantity "ruling" makes a stronger platform
in the end.

FGL

I am dealing with it by exposing it and discussing it.  Opinions can
spread and have a huge impact even if we are never aware of it.  You
would have everyone ignore tyranny.  Programmers have typically been
the easily stepped on types.

Adam

--- In gbadev@y..., John Pickford <john@z...> wrote:
>
> Calm down man.
>
> It's a big bad world out there - deal with it.
>
> Nintendo create a market and (attempt) to control it.  You either
play by
> their rules or don't play at all.
>
> Wasting energy "hating" them is silly.
>
> Nintendo owe you nothing.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Adressed to John really.  Is this $12 any different to what Sony make?  I
can't remember, but I imagine it can't be far off.  After all, they are
running a business.  Would anyone do any different?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rune Braathen [mailto:runeb@...]
Sent: 01 November 2001 15:51
To: gbadev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gbadev] Re: Nintendo's 4th Reich


norm328@... writes:
  > How much can I expect to make if it sells fairly, and how much will
  > Nintendo be making?

Roughly, for every cart sold, $12 in big Ns pocket...

--
runeb

<RANT>
Jeez - enough already!!! Get that chip off your shoulder. With an attitude
like this it's no wonder that Nintendo turned you down as a registered
developer. Why shouldn't Nintendo expect a return on their investment?
They've poured MILLIONS into R&D, marketing, manufacture, just so that you
can bitch about how unfair life is, and how the world owes you a living.
Nintendo didn't turn the industry into the state that its in at the moment -
the general public did, by buying lots of games. Do you really thing that if
there was no bandwagon to jump on, the suits would be here?? NO!!! I'm
getting sick to death of hearing people bitching about companies wanting
to - god forbid - make a profit.

Can we all now PLLLEEEEAAAASSSEEEEE *S.T.F.U.* with all the bitching and
wingeing and get back to talking dev issues?? Take it off-list, for
chrissakes.
</RANT>

Phew!


Dave Mariner


Technical Director
Medlab Group
=============================
http://www.medlab-group.com





----- Original Message -----
From: <norm328@...>
To: <gbadev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: [gbadev] Re: Nintendo's 4th Reich


> I should have the "right" to create a game without jumping through
> any damn hoops for Nintendo.  If I know the profit from my work is
> getting leeched by a company I can't stand, I am not inspired to
> create it.  Nintendo has set up a system that only big companies full
> of people that don't like their jobs can tolerate.  I hate how they
> have perverted what used to be, and could be, a creative exciting
> industry.  I can't and won't get on my knees peasant-like to receive
> the "right" to develop for the parts they assembled.
>
> Jetpack is not a port, but it doesn't seem like the type of thing
> publishers jump on these days, since everything has to be 3D.. but I
> think that's a shallow result of the industry being overrun by
> uncreative business types.  Jetpack was written in 1993 and still got
> 15,000 downloads last month.   http://www.adeptsoftware.com/classics
>
> Adam
>
> --- In gbadev@y..., "Nick London" <nutzboy@y...> wrote:
> > To the best of my knowledge on this, Nintendo cant do squat about
> you
> > developing for the platform. The can point and wave a nasty looking
> > finger... but that's about it.
> >
> > Making your own carts and selling the games they CAN do something
> about,
> > because the GBA cart design is patented (To the best of my
> knowledge) and
> > you also have to have that Nintendo logo in the ROM for it to boot,
> which is
> > copyrighted (Lets not get into a war about 'Cant copyright
> electronic
> > storage' shit).
> >
> > BUT, if you REALLY want to get it publish, do what I'm doing, make
> an
> > impressive demo, write up a beefy lookin' design doc and plonk it
> on the
> > table of some developer/publisher. If they like what they see,
> they'll
> > publish it. (Just make sure you have copyright and stuff sorted out
> > beforehand... and make sure you dont give them any hard copies
> before a
> > contract has been signed)... or, if you show it to a publisher and
> they want
> > you to develop it... they can actually ask Nintendo to give you
> developing
> > rights.
> >
> > I've been out of the GBA community for a while, so this might have
> changed,
> > but this was true as of about 3 or so months ago.
> >
> > But I doubt Jetpack would go very far, mainly because it's only a
> port
> > (Correct?) of another game, and probably wont blow the socks off any
> > publishers.
> >
> > Still, anything's worth a try. :)
> >
> > But I'd say at very best you'd get hired into a development company
> for
> > showing your competence... and hey, that aint all bad. :)
> >
> > Then just work your way up to game designer.
> >
> > BTW: Does anyone know if anyone at trade shows/expos/developer
> conferences
> > have any problems with you using writable carts? AGDC (Australian
> Game
> > Developers Conference) is in a week and my company has a demo it
> wants to
> > show off. :)
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > ZombieHunter... chock full of... uh... Zombie goodness.
> > And we know you love webcomics. ;)
> > http://www.zombiehunter.net
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> list rules: http://www.gbadev.org/rules.txt
> unsubscribe: gbadev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

norm328@... writes:
  > How much can I expect to make if it sells fairly, and how much will
  > Nintendo be making?

Roughly, for every cart sold, $12 in big Ns pocket...

--
runeb

Calm down man.

It's a big bad world out there - deal with it.

Nintendo create a market and (attempt) to control it.  You either play by
their rules or don't play at all.

Wasting energy "hating" them is silly.

Nintendo owe you nothing.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The quality control is for practical reasons.  You can't patch a
cartrige.  Blocking small developers has nothing to do with this.

I agree that N having the power to kill games they don't like keeps
perceived quality of the GBA higher.  Censorship can be a powerful
tool for many goals, including making money.  That's great for
Nintendo, but it sucks for small developers.

They sell the consoles cheap because they are making $$ off the
cartriges, this is true.  A profitable business plan is not a
justification for tyranny.

And on another comment - this isn't about freedom of speech?  Make a
game called Nintendo Sucks and see if N lets it through.  Does N
favor gun control?  Make a game that glorifies guns and see if they
allow it.  What other social agendas could they push or censor?  Any
monopoly like this is strangling freedom in many ways.  (even if they
would lose in court)

Adam

--- In gbadev@y..., zxadvance@b... wrote:
> I believe that the sole reason is money. Although the software
released for the GBA is fairly bug free, the quality of the majority
of games released to date is extreemly low.
> I see no evidence of quality control at all.
>
> Chris B.
>
> >  Virtually all console producers follow this route ( I know of
none
> > that dont ), it allows a level of quality control completely
unavailable on
> > the pc, one of the reasons that games on the pc dont do so well (
other than
> > quake ), the amount of testing that a game goes through is
immense ( trust
> > me I know ) before approval, how many times has an end user
believed his pc
> > to be broken due to dodgy software, Nintendo dont want users to
think their
> > machines are dodgy due to inadaquately tested software.
> >  The real reason for this policy however is money, The
development of
> > a top console is extremely expensive, and they actually sell them
at very
> > low prices when thats taken into consideration, think how much a
small lcd
> > tv is to buy, add in the relevent computational electronics and
you'd be
> > hard pressed to match the gba price, never mind the many millions
that were
> > spent developing/marketing it. In many cases machines have been
sold as loss
> > leaders, similar to the mobile phone market, with companys using
software
> > sales to make up the deficit, and eventually lead them into
profit.

If I wanted to work for a GBA dev team right now I would.  I can
write Jetpack GBA myself so why should I have to join a big company
and share the profits, because that's what N wants?
I didn't say there was no way to do it, just no good way.

Adam

--- In gbadev@y..., Aaron M Pendley <capnfunkor@j...> wrote:
>
> > BUT, if you REALLY want to get it publish, do what I'm doing,
make
> > an
> > impressive demo, write up a beefy lookin' design doc and plonk it
on
> > the
> > table of some developer/publisher. If they like what they see,
> > they'll
> > publish it. (Just make sure you have copyright and stuff sorted
out
> > beforehand... and make sure you dont give them any hard copies
> > before a
> > contract has been signed)... or, if you show it to a publisher
and
> > they want
> > you to develop it... they can actually ask Nintendo to give you
> > developing
> > rights.
>
> > But I'd say at very best you'd get hired into a development
company
> > for
> > showing your competence... and hey, that aint all bad. :)
> >
> > Then just work your way up to game designer.
>
> this is exactly the best way to go about it.  rather that complain
that
> the big N is mean and blah blah blah, put your nose to the
grindstone and
> make a bad ass demo.  an artist friend of mine and I made a certain
demo
> for a certain competition earlier this year, and we both recently
scored
> jobs at a GBA development studio.  it's not easy, but it is
possible.  If
> you've already shown that you know what you are doing, and are
willing to
> do it without compensation, then there is little reason why you
would not
> get hired at a dev studio and start making money for your work.
>
> aaron
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

How much can I expect to make if it sells fairly, and how much will
Nintendo be making?
I would prefer to make it first, then find a publisher, than be under
their influence and milestones.  But I don't want to spend a lot of
time writing it if I'm going to get screwed by Nintendo.  Nintendo
already rejected my company as a dev a year ago and ignored several
of my emails afterward.  If they can veto anything I make at will, I
don't want to waste my time.

Adam

--- In gbadev@y..., "Webmaster" <webmaster@d...> wrote:
> As your game is quite well known, I don't think it would be that
hard to get your game professionally published. I haven a contact
whos has a contact that might be able to help. I helped port Genetic
Species from Amiga to PC, and Im in close terms with that company,
and they have a publisher now. I might be able to recommend something
to them. But I would make a good demo first.
> And I would love to beta test.  I have a FLASH LINKER so i can test
it on the GBA too.
>
> Matt
> www.gameboyland.com
> www.dreamcast.ca
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: norm328@y...
>   To: gbadev@y...
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:07 PM
>   Subject: [gbadev] Nintendo's 4th Reich
>
>
>   I am the author of Jetpack, and was looking into making it for
the
>   GBA.  But after reading about Nintendo's exclusion of new
developers,
>   and dealing with their rude support people personally, I don't
have
>   any desire to work with Nintendo.  Unfortunately you apparently
have
>   to be in bed with them to create anything for their system.
>   I would like nothing more than to encourage a competitor to the
GBA.
>   Are there any in the works?
>
>   If Nintendo has such a monopoly on this market as they appear to,
how
>   is it legal for them to decree who can make games for their
system?
>   Isn't this unfair abuse of monopoly power?  Why isn't anyone
>   complaining like they do about Microsoft?
>
>   I think it's ridiculous that they can do this, and just as
ridiculous
>   that they get a cut from every game made for their platform.
This is
>   like intel getting a percentage for every program written for
their
>   chip - and worse, saying who can write what.  This looks to me
like a
>   complete stranglehold on freedom of speech.  Am I wrong?  How is
this
>   legal?

I should have the "right" to create a game without jumping through
any damn hoops for Nintendo.  If I know the profit from my work is
getting leeched by a company I can't stand, I am not inspired to
create it.  Nintendo has set up a system that only big companies full
of people that don't like their jobs can tolerate.  I hate how they
have perverted what used to be, and could be, a creative exciting
industry.  I can't and won't get on my knees peasant-like to receive
the "right" to develop for the parts they assembled.

Jetpack is not a port, but it doesn't seem like the type of thing
publishers jump on these days, since everything has to be 3D.. but I
think that's a shallow result of the industry being overrun by
uncreative business types.  Jetpack was written in 1993 and still got
15,000 downloads last month.   http://www.adeptsoftware.com/classics

Adam

--- In gbadev@y..., "Nick London" <nutzboy@y...> wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge on this, Nintendo cant do squat about
you
> developing for the platform. The can point and wave a nasty looking
> finger... but that's about it.
>
> Making your own carts and selling the games they CAN do something
about,
> because the GBA cart design is patented (To the best of my
knowledge) and
> you also have to have that Nintendo logo in the ROM for it to boot,
which is
> copyrighted (Lets not get into a war about 'Cant copyright
electronic
> storage' shit).
>
> BUT, if you REALLY want to get it publish, do what I'm doing, make
an
> impressive demo, write up a beefy lookin' design doc and plonk it
on the
> table of some developer/publisher. If they like what they see,
they'll
> publish it. (Just make sure you have copyright and stuff sorted out
> beforehand... and make sure you dont give them any hard copies
before a
> contract has been signed)... or, if you show it to a publisher and
they want
> you to develop it... they can actually ask Nintendo to give you
developing
> rights.
>
> I've been out of the GBA community for a while, so this might have
changed,
> but this was true as of about 3 or so months ago.
>
> But I doubt Jetpack would go very far, mainly because it's only a
port
> (Correct?) of another game, and probably wont blow the socks off any
> publishers.
>
> Still, anything's worth a try. :)
>
> But I'd say at very best you'd get hired into a development company
for
> showing your competence... and hey, that aint all bad. :)
>
> Then just work your way up to game designer.
>
> BTW: Does anyone know if anyone at trade shows/expos/developer
conferences
> have any problems with you using writable carts? AGDC (Australian
Game
> Developers Conference) is in a week and my company has a demo it
wants to
> show off. :)
>
> ------------------------------
> ZombieHunter... chock full of... uh... Zombie goodness.
> And we know you love webcomics. ;)
> http://www.zombiehunter.net
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi I am thinking of upgrading my flash cart from
64MB to 128MB. I have seen in a previous posting
this site:

http://202.60.224.104/store.asp?swfprod_id=61

I have to sent them the old cart and then they
will sent me back the new one.
Has anyone has any feedback of this store/site.
They are located in Hong Kong and they
are too far away from my place where I live :)

Thanks!
Panagiotis

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


> >This looks to me like a complete stranglehold on freedom of speech.
>
>  How so ? You didn't spend years developing the console, why
> should you be allowed to use it to make a profit and not Nin ?

but he wouldnt be making profit off of the console. Just the game. So that
argument makes no sense. And just because nintendo choose to sell the systems
at a loss is irrelevant, they could equally well choose to sell them for
£1000 each, but they dont.
- --
Tom "Tomahawk" Badran
Department of Computing, Imperial College
- --------------------------------------------------------------
PGP Public key available from keyserver.pgp.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE74U5MXCpWOla2mCcRAu4CAJ92c1/+wJVWAhFAlIGahgBe3On3LwCglEDV
Qvph+QAeWRhmja3HYL4JxXQ=
=ThAa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:07:28 -0000, you wrote:

>I am the author of Jetpack, and was looking into making it for the
>GBA.  But after reading about Nintendo's exclusion of new developers,
>and dealing with their rude support people personally, I don't have
>any desire to work with Nintendo.  Unfortunately you apparently have
>to be in bed with them to create anything for their system.
>I would like nothing more than to encourage a competitor to the GBA.
>Are there any in the works?

	 Jetpack ? the old speccy game from Rare/Ultimate ?

>If Nintendo has such a monopoly on this market as they appear to, how
>is it legal for them to decree who can make games for their system?
>Isn't this unfair abuse of monopoly power?  Why isn't anyone
>complaining like they do about Microsoft?

	 Because they spent millions developing the console and
advertising it, and they don't want shit games on it to spoil it's
reputation.

>I think it's ridiculous that they can do this, and just as ridiculous
>that they get a cut from every game made for their platform.  This is
>like intel getting a percentage for every program written for their
>chip - and worse, saying who can write what.

	 No it isn't, a chip isn't a complete system.

>This looks to me like a complete stranglehold on freedom of speech.

	 How so ? You didn't spend years developing the console, why
should you be allowed to use it to make a profit and not Nin ?

>Am I wrong?

	 Yes.

>How is this legal?

	 Simply, because when you develop for nintendo, you agree to it
!!! No-ones bending your arm behind your back making you develope for
it... If you don't want to... don't ! If you do, then you *will* have
to pay nintendo to use their console to sell your game. What's wrong
with that, it's the same for any console manufacturer ,
Sony/Sega/Nintendo/Microsoft *everyone* ! They're all expecting their
cut, because invariably they're selling the console at a loss..... Why
would they even bother to make it if they can't make any money from it
? They've spent millions making it.

Jay

I believe that the sole reason is money. Although the software released for the
GBA is fairly bug free, the quality of the majority of games released to date is
extreemly low.
I see no evidence of quality control at all.

Chris B.

>  Virtually all console producers follow this route ( I know of none
> that dont ), it allows a level of quality control completely unavailable on
> the pc, one of the reasons that games on the pc dont do so well ( other than
> quake ), the amount of testing that a game goes through is immense ( trust
> me I know ) before approval, how many times has an end user believed his pc
> to be broken due to dodgy software, Nintendo dont want users to think their
> machines are dodgy due to inadaquately tested software.
>  The real reason for this policy however is money, The development of
> a top console is extremely expensive, and they actually sell them at very
> low prices when thats taken into consideration, think how much a small lcd
> tv is to buy, add in the relevent computational electronics and you'd be
> hard pressed to match the gba price, never mind the many millions that were
> spent developing/marketing it. In many cases machines have been sold as loss
> leaders, similar to the mobile phone market, with companys using software
> sales to make up the deficit, and eventually lead them into profit.

> seriously - its no big deal. they're cheaper than the official carts and a
> lot of companies use them. heck ive seen dev studios using modified action
> replays to do psx work and Dr.64 junniors for n64 dev :) as long as you
are
> using it for legitimate purposes nobody is going to complain.
LOL - did you guys also hide them all when N or Sony did a tour of the
offices??

A couple of lurkers on the list will remember doing this!!


Dave Mariner

ive never had anyone complain that im using a 3rd party writable cart - why
would they? well, as long as when they boot it up it dosnt have a copy of
one of their games on it that is :0)

seriously - its no big deal. they're cheaper than the official carts and a
lot of companies use them. heck ive seen dev studios using modified action
replays to do psx work and Dr.64 junniors for n64 dev :) as long as you are
using it for legitimate purposes nobody is going to complain.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Nick London [mailto:nutzboy@...]
   Sent: 31 October 2001 18:46
   To: gbadev@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [gbadev] Nintendo's 4th Reich


   To the best of my knowledge on this, Nintendo cant do squat about you
   developing for the platform. The can point and wave a nasty looking
   finger... but that's about it.

   Making your own carts and selling the games they CAN do something about,
   because the GBA cart design is patented (To the best of my knowledge) and
   you also have to have that Nintendo logo in the ROM for it to boot, which
is
   copyrighted (Lets not get into a war about 'Cant copyright electronic
   storage' shit).

   BUT, if you REALLY want to get it publish, do what I'm doing, make an
   impressive demo, write up a beefy lookin' design doc and plonk it on the
   table of some developer/publisher. If they like what they see, they'll
   publish it. (Just make sure you have copyright and stuff sorted out
   beforehand... and make sure you dont give them any hard copies before a
   contract has been signed)... or, if you show it to a publisher and they
want
   you to develop it... they can actually ask Nintendo to give you developing
   rights.

   I've been out of the GBA community for a while, so this might have
changed,
   but this was true as of about 3 or so months ago.

   But I doubt Jetpack would go very far, mainly because it's only a port
   (Correct?) of another game, and probably wont blow the socks off any
   publishers.

   Still, anything's worth a try. :)

   But I'd say at very best you'd get hired into a development company for
   showing your competence... and hey, that aint all bad. :)

   Then just work your way up to game designer.

   BTW: Does anyone know if anyone at trade shows/expos/developer conferences
   have any problems with you using writable carts? AGDC (Australian Game
   Developers Conference) is in a week and my company has a demo it wants to
   show off. :)

   ------------------------------
   ZombieHunter... chock full of... uh... Zombie goodness.
   And we know you love webcomics. ;)
   http://www.zombiehunter.net


   _________________________________________________________
   Do You Yahoo!?
   Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
               ADVERTISEMENT




   list rules: http://www.gbadev.org/rules.txt
   unsubscribe: gbadev-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
         This email has been virus scanned using Sophos Anti-Virus by intY
(www.inty.net)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Virtually all console producers follow this route ( I know of none
that dont ), it allows a level of quality control completely unavailable on
the pc, one of the reasons that games on the pc dont do so well ( other than
quake ), the amount of testing that a game goes through is immense ( trust
me I know ) before approval, how many times has an end user believed his pc
to be broken due to dodgy software, Nintendo dont want users to think their
machines are dodgy due to inadaquately tested software.
	 The real reason for this policy however is money, The development of
a top console is extremely expensive, and they actually sell them at very
low prices when thats taken into consideration, think how much a small lcd
tv is to buy, add in the relevent computational electronics and you'd be
hard pressed to match the gba price, never mind the many millions that were
spent developing/marketing it. In many cases machines have been sold as loss
leaders, similar to the mobile phone market, with companys using software
sales to make up the deficit, and eventually lead them into profit.

> Unfortunately, all source code is still in my head.

Sounds like most of my projects :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]