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#12033 From: "j_north2002" <johnny_north@...>
Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 11:03 pm
Subject: memcpy
j_north2002
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Could someone tell me why memcpy and DMA 3 transfer should result in
different processor behaviors, other than speed? When I replace my
DMA copies with memcpy for transfering const data to the VRAM in mode
4, 1/2 the images are fine and 1/2 are chuncky looking - all on the
same screen. I was suprised that this worked at all as mode4 requires
u16 writes and memcpy is u8 writes.

#12032 From: "SorcererXIII" <sorcererxiii@...>
Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: SNES/GBA Map Editor that Loads/Saves Components?
SorcererXIII
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Maybe you could get away with just changing the height and width
fields for the bitmap header data before you load it into the editor.
  If you set the width to be 8 (or whatever the width of your tile is)
and the height to be numTiles*8, the tile editor will be only see one
tile per row and presumably load them in order, which is the same as
if the tile editor had the ability to to read from the format of the
tiles as they're stored in VRAM.

--- In gbadev@y..., "simonclarke" <simonclarke@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, though this app doesn't currently have the
> functionality I'm after. I'm looking for something that doesn't
> require a char set/tile set to be loaded in as a bitmap.
>
> Simon.
>
>
>
> --- In gbadev@y..., "Juan A. Muñoz" <endos@e...> wrote:
> > EMapper Advanced support loadding of multiple tile bitmaps.
> > Each tile position can be moved without altering the map data (that
> is
> > internally reallocated) so,
> > you can make a map with each tile placed in the position you want.
> >
> > You can test if this is what you are looking for, downloading the
> demo
> > version available in
> > http://gbadev.endostech.com
> >
> > ---
> > Juan A. Muñoz,
> > EndosTech
> >
> > simonclarke wrote:
> >
> > >In a SNES->GBA conversion we're doing, I need to rearrange the
> data
> > >in a bunch of 32 x 32 character (pointer) maps, but to keep the
> > >original game's character sets exactly as is.
> > >
> > >To save reinventing the wheel and time, by writing my own tool,
> does
> > >anyone know the whereabouts of a SNES (or GBA) map editor that
> allows
> > >the individual loading (and saving) of a char set, map and palette
> (s)?
> > >
> > >I've done an extensive search, and the only editors I've come
> across
> > >so far, need the images to be loaded in as bitmaps, which don't
> > >guarantee the final output char set to be (placed) exactly the
> same
> > >as the original.
> > >
> > >Have a good weekend,
> > >Simon.
> > >

#12031 From: porneL <pornel@...>
Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:07 pm
Subject: SWI 2/5
pornelkurna
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I've got problem with SWI 2.

   I want my program to wait for vblank in energy-efficent way.

   I've set up interrupts:

      *((function**)0x03007FFC) = handler;
      REG_DISPSTAT |= 1<<3;
      REG_IE |= 1;
      REG_IME = 1;

   int. handler:

        void handler(void) {vblankspassed++; REG_IF |= REG_IF;}

   and my waiting-code looks like this (waits 2 vblanks):

       while(vblankspassed <= vblanksprocessed) {SystemCall(2);}
       vblanksprocessed += 2;


   This works as expected under VBA 0.9,
   under Boycott 0.26 SystemCall() returns immediately,
   and on real hardware SystemCall() never returns...


   any ideas whats wrong?



   bye, porneL


--

1200 603/200 040/25 64M 8.6G 4X 3.1 AGA, GG 989217

#12030 From: David Willmore <davidwillmore@...>
Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:34 am
Subject: Re: Battery Usage?
davidwillmore
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> Having 'louder' (including many frequencies simultaneously) sound will
> increase battery usage. Heavy CPU usage will also do this. Possibly even
> brighter colours on screen will draw more power, but im just guessing there.

I'm going to guess that the colors displayed will have little effect on the
power draw.  Changing a color on and off in lines may have some effect.

> The way the gba measures battery power is very primitive. The temperature of
> the batteries will also affect this reading quite dramatically. Cold
> batteries will give more output than warm ones for instance. I also remember
> reading somewhere that forcing a vblank causes a power 'spike', but that
> would have to be confirmed.

You have the temp backwards.  Warm batteries have a higher terminal voltage
as well as higher current capacity (at least alkaline and NiCd/NIMH do) unless
you get much hotter than a GBA should be! :)  This is due to chemical activity
being proportional to temperature--why we put food in a cold refrigerator.

I'll get the multimeter out and run some testing when I get the multiboot
cable built.  I have the PICs, now.  Just have to build a PIC programmer.
All in good time.

Cheers,
David

#12029 From: David Willmore <davidwillmore@...>
Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:20 am
Subject: Re: Re: Arcade conversions.
davidwillmore
Online Now Online Now
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> [... much deleted ...]
> cheers,
>
> col.

Yes, what he said.  Except that for user interfaces (what button to
press to make something happen), try *never* to surprise the user.

Cheers,
David

#12028 From: "Juan A. Muñoz" <endos@...>
Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 12:12 am
Subject: Re: Re: SNES/GBA Map Editor that Loads/Saves Components?
endostech
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Only one explication ...

If you have an alphabetical tile set in alphabetical order and after
importing it looks like this:

Tile Window
--------------
Nº - Content
1  -  C
2  -  A
3  -  B

with EMapper you can drag and drop the first tile to the last position
an put it in the right order:

1 - A
2 - B
3 - C

In other words, you can obtain a tile set placed exactly the same as the
original.

---
Juan A. Muñoz,
EndosTech


simonclarke wrote:

>Thanks for the reply, though this app doesn't currently have the
>functionality I'm after. I'm looking for something that doesn't
>require a char set/tile set to be loaded in as a bitmap.
>
>Simon.
>
>
>
>--- In gbadev@y..., "Juan A. Muñoz" <endos@e...> wrote:
>
>>EMapper Advanced support loadding of multiple tile bitmaps.
>>Each tile position can be moved without altering the map data (that
>>
>is
>
>>internally reallocated) so,
>>you can make a map with each tile placed in the position you want.
>>
>>You can test if this is what you are looking for, downloading the
>>
>demo
>
>>version available in
>>http://gbadev.endostech.com
>>
>>---
>>Juan A. Muñoz,
>>EndosTech

[old msg cropped by mod]

#12027 From: "Marcus Lynn" <marcusl@...>
Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:35 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Strange graphics corruption part II - anyone explain this behaviour
marcusl@...
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Whoops ,the overlap was a mis calculation , it doesn't overlap actually in
the game, but just to be sure I corrected the overlap in the testdemo and
still the same results. Definately very strange.

----- Original Message -----
From: "SorcererXIII" <sorcererxiii@...>
To: <gbadev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: [gbadev] Re: Strange graphics corruption part II - anyone explain
this behaviour


> Well, I don't have an answer for you, but I did notice that the tile
> data for BG1 overlaps with the map data when you switch it to the
> first tile block - just not on an area that's visible on the screen.
> You can see it as the last row of garbage if you open it in a map
> viewer.  Have you tried setting all your map entries to reference
> non-map data?  Or doing your vblank bank swapping from 2 to 3, 3 to 4,
> 2 to 4, etc?  Perhaps there is some issue with the hardware attempting
> to use the map data to reference itself as tile data.

[old msgs cropped by mod]

#12026 From: "SorcererXIII" <sorcererxiii@...>
Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 9:26 pm
Subject: Re: Strange graphics corruption part II - anyone explain this behaviour
SorcererXIII
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Well, I don't have an answer for you, but I did notice that the tile
data for BG1 overlaps with the map data when you switch it to the
first tile block - just not on an area that's visible on the screen.
You can see it as the last row of garbage if you open it in a map
viewer.  Have you tried setting all your map entries to reference
non-map data?  Or doing your vblank bank swapping from 2 to 3, 3 to 4,
2 to 4, etc?  Perhaps there is some issue with the hardware attempting
to use the map data to reference itself as tile data.

--- In gbadev@y..., "Marcus Lynn" <marcusl@n...> wrote:
> I'm currently experiencing strange graphic corruption in my game
which has
> baffled me, I've create a small BIN and single source file example that
> demonstrates it, also got a guy from Nintendo checking it out.
>
> Just wonderering if anyone has come across this behaviour or knows a
> solution..
>
> The code simply scrolls BG0 by 3 each time while changing the
character bank
> of BG1, you will see that when run on hardware the strange vertical
lines
> appearing on the display every now and then.
>
> It doesn't happen if I scroll by 1 each time..
>
> you can grab the BIN and source file here
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/marcusl/
>
>
> Marcus Lynn

#12025 From: "simonclarke" <simonclarke@...>
Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: SNES/GBA Map Editor that Loads/Saves Components?
simonclarke
Offline Offline
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Thanks for the reply, though this app doesn't currently have the
functionality I'm after. I'm looking for something that doesn't
require a char set/tile set to be loaded in as a bitmap.

Simon.



--- In gbadev@y..., "Juan A. Muñoz" <endos@e...> wrote:
> EMapper Advanced support loadding of multiple tile bitmaps.
> Each tile position can be moved without altering the map data (that
is
> internally reallocated) so,
> you can make a map with each tile placed in the position you want.
>
> You can test if this is what you are looking for, downloading the
demo
> version available in
> http://gbadev.endostech.com
>
> ---
> Juan A. Muñoz,
> EndosTech
>
> simonclarke wrote:
>
> >In a SNES->GBA conversion we're doing, I need to rearrange the
data
> >in a bunch of 32 x 32 character (pointer) maps, but to keep the
> >original game's character sets exactly as is.
> >
> >To save reinventing the wheel and time, by writing my own tool,
does
> >anyone know the whereabouts of a SNES (or GBA) map editor that
allows
> >the individual loading (and saving) of a char set, map and palette
(s)?
> >
> >I've done an extensive search, and the only editors I've come
across
> >so far, need the images to be loaded in as bitmaps, which don't
> >guarantee the final output char set to be (placed) exactly the
same
> >as the original.
> >
> >Have a good weekend,
> >Simon.
> >

#12024 From: Tom Badran <tb100@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:11 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Battery Usage?
tb100badran
Offline Offline
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On Friday 28 Jun 2002 4:35 pm, you wrote:
> > Possibly even
> > brighter colours on screen will draw more power, but im just
> > guessing there.
>
> Maybe I'm being dense.  Wouldn't it be darker colors which would draw
> extra, since LCD draws power to become opaque, and thus to prevent
> reflection?
>
> I don't well understand LCD, and would like to make sure I'm not just
> misunderstanding.

I dont understand it fully either, perhaps that is right. I just thought the
screen is 'dark' by default which implies it needs power to make it light.

Tom

#12023 From: "Juan A. Muñoz" <endos@...>
Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 9:51 am
Subject: Re: SNES/GBA Map Editor that Loads/Saves Components?
endostech
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
EMapper Advanced support loadding of multiple tile bitmaps.
Each tile position can be moved without altering the map data (that is
internally reallocated) so,
you can make a map with each tile placed in the position you want.

You can test if this is what you are looking for, downloading the demo
version available in
http://gbadev.endostech.com

---
Juan A. Muñoz,
EndosTech

simonclarke wrote:

>In a SNES->GBA conversion we're doing, I need to rearrange the data
>in a bunch of 32 x 32 character (pointer) maps, but to keep the
>original game's character sets exactly as is.
>
>To save reinventing the wheel and time, by writing my own tool, does
>anyone know the whereabouts of a SNES (or GBA) map editor that allows
>the individual loading (and saving) of a char set, map and palette(s)?
>
>I've done an extensive search, and the only editors I've come across
>so far, need the images to be loaded in as bitmaps, which don't
>guarantee the final output char set to be (placed) exactly the same
>as the original.
>
>Have a good weekend,
>Simon.
>

#12022 From: "Marcus Lynn" <marcusl@...>
Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:06 am
Subject: Strange graphics corruption part II - anyone explain this behaviour
marcusl@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm currently experiencing strange graphic corruption in my game which has
baffled me, I've create a small BIN and single source file example that
demonstrates it, also got a guy from Nintendo checking it out.

Just wonderering if anyone has come across this behaviour or knows a
solution..

The code simply scrolls BG0 by 3 each time while changing the character bank
of BG1, you will see that when run on hardware the strange vertical lines
appearing on the display every now and then.

It doesn't happen if I scroll by 1 each time..

you can grab the BIN and source file here

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/marcusl/


Marcus Lynn

#12021 From: "simonclarke" <simonc@...>
Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:29 am
Subject: SNES/GBA Map Editor that Loads/Saves Components?
simonclarke
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a SNES->GBA conversion we're doing, I need to rearrange the data
in a bunch of 32 x 32 character (pointer) maps, but to keep the
original game's character sets exactly as is.

To save reinventing the wheel and time, by writing my own tool, does
anyone know the whereabouts of a SNES (or GBA) map editor that allows
the individual loading (and saving) of a char set, map and palette(s)?

I've done an extensive search, and the only editors I've come across
so far, need the images to be loaded in as bitmaps, which don't
guarantee the final output char set to be (placed) exactly the same
as the original.

Have a good weekend,
Simon.

#12020 From: "yerricde" <d_yerrick@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: Battery Usage?
yerricde
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In gbadev@y..., Peter Featherstone <peterf@d...> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I've noticed when playing different games on my gba when the
> batteries are low, certain sections turn the led red whilst
> others leave it at green.

You can do the following to draw less power:
* turn sound off (cuts off power to the audio circuitry)
* turn off ROM prefetch (reduces power to the game pak) except
   when DMAing from ROM
* run code from EWRAM rather than ROM (cuts off most power to
   the game pak)
* use BIOS to wait for vblank and other interrupts rather than
   spinning (cuts off most power to the CPU)
* optimize your code (useful when combined with previous tip)
* (possibly) switch to low-complexity graphics (though I haven't
   tested this on my GBA)

These tips may also boost frame rate in emulators, especially the
use of BIOS and low-complexity graphics.

--
Damian

#12019 From: "johnisaheadcase" <fattydesign@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: Battery Usage?
johnisaheadcase
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
> Possibly even
> brighter colours on screen will draw more power, but im just
> guessing there.

Maybe I'm being dense.  Wouldn't it be darker colors which would draw
extra, since LCD draws power to become opaque, and thus to prevent
reflection?

I don't well understand LCD, and would like to make sure I'm not just
misunderstanding.

#12018 From: "Dima" <dmitri.dev@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:30 pm
Subject: RE: Battery Usage?
dmitri_dev
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
games run synchronized to LCD refresh and usually require less time for
processing one frame than available (1/60 sec.) you can halt the CPU
until screen finishes refreshing or until interrupt is triggered. this
conserves the battery power. for example BIOS call VBlankIntrWait()
halts CPU until LCD finished refresh. the earlier you halt CPU per
frame, the less battery power is consumed.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Featherstone [mailto:peterf@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 13:42
> To: gbadev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [gbadev] Battery Usage?
>
>
> Hi
>
> I've noticed when playing different games on my gba when the
> batteries are low, certain sections turn the led red whilst
> others leave it at green.  I've also heard about some games
> using more battery power than others.
>
> can someone explain this or point me to some info on this?
> Is this what the different ways of accessing the rom are about?
>
> thanks

#12017 From: "Collin van Ginkel" <collin@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: Battery Usage?
fleppes2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,

As far as I know every action the GBA does costs battery-power. The screen,
sound, processor etc all take a small part, and if you look closely you'll
see that sometimes the red/green light flickers at the beat of the music :)

Greetz.

Collin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Featherstone" <peterf@...>
To: <gbadev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: [gbadev] Battery Usage?


> Hi
>
> I've noticed when playing different games on my gba when the batteries
> are low, certain sections turn the led red whilst others leave it at
> green.  I've also heard about some games using more battery power than
> others.
>
> can someone explain this or point me to some info on this?  Is this
> what the different ways of accessing the rom are about?
>
> thanks

#12016 From: "Fatty diZilla" <fattydesign@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:18 pm
Subject: Re: Battery Usage?
johnisaheadcase
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
> I've noticed when playing different games on my gba when the batteries
> are low, certain sections turn the led red whilst others leave it at
> green.  I've also heard about some games using more battery power than
> others.

There are two power saving modes which can be enacted by BIOS calls: stop
and halt.  Stop turns pretty much everything off; halt turns off the CPU.
Both end on interrupt, I believe.

Alternately, you can turn some subsystems off.  The sound card is an
example.  I believe you can also turn off SIO and video, but I'm not certain
of either of those.

> can someone explain this or point me to some info on this?  Is this
> what the different ways of accessing the rom are about?

Nah.  That's so that you can manufacture carts with cheap ROMs which don't
read quickly.  For example, consider a chess game with a large tutor
section.  The game itself would be small, but the tutorials could easily
reach into the megabytes.  Since there's no need for the tutorials to be
fast, just drop them into El Cheapo (tm) brand ROMs, and put them in one of
the ROM shadows which is set up to get a memory read by Thursday.

----

Side note: Otaku, calm down.  There was no call for that, and especially not
in public.  God forbid this be a pleasant place to chat with people whose
company you enjoy.  :(

#12015 From: Tom Badran <tb100@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:20 am
Subject: Re: Battery Usage?
tb100badran
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
On Friday 28 Jun 2002 12:41 pm, you wrote:
> Hi
>
> I've noticed when playing different games on my gba when the batteries
> are low, certain sections turn the led red whilst others leave it at
> green.  I've also heard about some games using more battery power than
> others.
>
> can someone explain this or point me to some info on this?  Is this
> what the different ways of accessing the rom are about?

Having 'louder' (including many frequencies simultaneously) sound will
increase battery usage. Heavy CPU usage will also do this. Possibly even
brighter colours on screen will draw more power, but im just guessing there.

The way the gba measures battery power is very primitive. The temperature of
the batteries will also affect this reading quite dramatically. Cold
batteries will give more output than warm ones for instance. I also remember
reading somewhere that forcing a vblank causes a power 'spike', but that
would have to be confirmed.

Tom

#12014 From: John Pickford <john@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:48 am
Subject: RE: Re: Original genres?
jpickford23467
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Here's a little (PC) puzzle game I've been tinkering with.  Not finished by
any means but quite playable.

A few people have suggested a GBA version but I'm skeptical that any
publisher will take on a non-licensed product.

Comments welcome.

ftp.zedtwo.com/sticky.zip

[old msg's cropped by mod]

#12013 From: Peter Featherstone <peterf@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:41 am
Subject: Battery Usage?
peterf303
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi

I've noticed when playing different games on my gba when the batteries
are low, certain sections turn the led red whilst others leave it at
green.  I've also heard about some games using more battery power than
others.

can someone explain this or point me to some info on this?  Is this
what the different ways of accessing the rom are about?

thanks

#12012 From: "Francis Lillie" <francis_lillie@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:49 am
Subject: RE: Re: Original genres?
francis_lillie@...
Send Email Send Email
 
>I don't know what Yoshi is, but the principle of zoocube is simple.

Yes, the principle of ZooCube is VERY simple indeed.  I have personally
not seen a game like it in concept.  OK, so it's only a puzzle game, but
as far as my limited knowledge of puzzle games goes, it's pretty unique.
Yes, many links and similarities with other puzzle game types and ideas
borrowed from other games.

This lead on to the observation of "Are there any truly original games
these days?"  I'm NOT knocking the fact that there aren't many/any truly
original games these days, but one needs look no further than Big N
itself for proof of how following in the footsteps of established genres
can be enjoyable and in many cases bettered each and every time.  Take
the Mario series for example.  OK, so a new Mario games usually comes
about at the launch of a new platform, so it's gonna look better, but
for me, the games play better and better each time, regardless of
graphical splendour.

If you try hard enough I think you could bring ANY game down to a very
small number of genres.  The key, as it's ALWAYS been for me is
gameplay.

Remember, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.  How many
developers want to imitate shit?  None would be my answer, so the games
that are copied time and time again are obviously the popular ones, so
why don't we just keep copying them and making them better and better.
Practice makes perfect.

Just my opinion though, which along with the rest of me, is pretty
fragged by Fridays. :)

FGL

#12011 From: "Otaku" <otaku@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:17 am
Subject: Re: Re: Arcade conversions.
otaku@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Can we kill this thread? Along with all the other irrelevant off-topic drivel
that has floated through this list for the past week? Take it private or take it
to IRC. Is it absolutely necessary to respond to every single post?

Welcome to my killfile. You are the second person from this list to be given
such an honour.

Can we please get back to talking about GBA development now?

"Opinions are like ..."
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Fatty diZilla
   To: gbadev@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:58 PM
   Subject: Re: [gbadev] Re: Arcade conversions.

#12010 From: Henrik Rydgard <meloditronic@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: Arcade conversions.
meloditronic@...
Send Email Send Email
 
>Perhaps you should seek the Hornet archive.  There were, for example, 256
>byte demo competitions.  Granted, this is aided by an extant OS and bios,
>but still, it's sort of important not to trivialize the amount of effort
>that was put into those.  I saw a *raycaster* crammed into 256 bytes once.

www.256b.com
lots of them... some really amazing

#12009 From: James Daniels <james.daniels@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:42 am
Subject: Re: V-Rally's tmapping
j_r_daniels
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi David,

> In V-Rally, the backdrop is sprites... so all you do is draw the poly,
> complete with the 0-texels, and you see through the colour 0 to the
> sprites :)

Ah yes, good point, I forgot about this.

> Note - it won't work in all cases - only if the trees are the only thing
> between the camera and the backdrop - they probably have a separate
> tmapper for the scaled-bitmap tress that are drawn in front of other
> background polys

I'm not sure how they'd be able to tell if a tree (or other object) met
this criteria. I wouldn't be surprised if all trees are drawn using the
colour-0-transparent tmapper.
--
Cheers,
James.

     /\  apex                                 James Daniels
    //\\  designs            james.daniels@...
   //__\\                       http://www.apex-designs.net

#12008 From: "yerricde" <d_yerrick@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:13 am
Subject: Re: Arcade conversions.
yerricde
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--- In gbadev@y..., "Fatty diZilla" <fattydesign@e...> wrote:
> > How about cyan?  Then you're talking Pole Position, the "prequel"
> > to the Ridge Racer series, developed by Namco and published
> > by Atari.  The sky is solid cyan, the track is flat in flat
> > colors, and the cars are drawn with only two triangles each.
>
> Um.  I thought Pole Position cars were sprites?

Yes, they were scaled sprites, which 3D display systems render
as pairs of textured triangles.  I should have clarified "textured
triangles".

Which brings us back to v-rally 3...

--
Damian

#12007 From: "Fatty diZilla" <fattydesign@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:58 am
Subject: Re: Re: Arcade conversions.
johnisaheadcase
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> That would be One Must Fall 2002.  :)
>
> [mod note: WHAAT? Do you mean OMF 2097?! That game has excellent graphics!
very smooth animations (pre-rendered sprites). And the whole game owns :]

No, I mean One Must Fall 2002.  It was a parody of OMF2097 which tried to
look like it was a BBS door.  And it was balls on funny.

I'm not able to find a link to it on google.  I worry that it died with
FidoNet.  (Anyone who tells me fidonet is alive and kicking ought to go find
that one video rental store in their city that still rents BetaMax.)

#12006 From: "Fatty diZilla" <fattydesign@...>
Date: Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:09 am
Subject: Re: Re: Arcade conversions.
johnisaheadcase
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"
point 2 : i think the code would need tons of reworking to work on gba,
the pc version required ~2.5meg of memory if i remember right. and they
used some huge temporary files between mission<->overview switches (if
you don't remember, if you had successfully completed the previous
mission you could press ctrl-break to "exit" the program, after this you
would get the same results as you had on the previous mission, thus
completing it. this worked due to the different programs for the parts
and "swap" files inbetween.)
"

I think this would drop significantly.  A lot of that RAM is set aside for
graphics; the graphics would take far less space on the AGB (smaller, lower
color images), and DMA timing could be guaranteed with far higher
reliability.

Closed cartridge systems with guaranteed timing can get away with a lot more
ram hokery than PC systems with unknown drive mechanisms.

(Wow, this mail has been sitting on my desktop for days, unsent.  Sorry.)

#12005 From: "Fatty diZilla" <fattydesign@...>
Date: Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:24 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Arcade conversions.
johnisaheadcase
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> Why can't they put in a 'bypass all cut scenes' or a play them
> only once option in games?

I feel that hitting a button is enough.  Not only may you pick and choose
which FMVs to watch, but you don't need to go all thye way back to the
options menu if you expected it to be on one setting and it isn't.

> I'm with you.  Games on PCs have suffered from bloat way too
> much.  Games on DVDs has not helped their behavior any, either.
> The PC equivalent of the 4K gaming contest would be to limit
> them to *one* CD-ROM.  Probably even have to specify a 74
> minute to keep them from using those 99 minute ones...

Perhaps you should seek the Hornet archive.  There were, for example, 256
byte demo competitions.  Granted, this is aided by an extant OS and bios,
but still, it's sort of important not to trivialize the amount of effort
that was put into those.  I saw a *raycaster* crammed into 256 bytes once.

> As my grandfather used to say "you can't polish shit."

(crying laughing)

#12004 From: "colinraybrown" <user@...>
Date: Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:15 pm
Subject: Re: Arcade conversions.
colinraybrown
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--- In gbadev@y..., David Willmore <davidwillmore@i...> wrote:

>
> As my grandfather used to say "you can't polish shit."
> If you want to polish, start with something better.
>

:)

I was going to say the same - "you can't polish a turd" is what we
used to say when I was at art college.

Personally I find this whole debate very interesting, and I feel that
there are a few things that havn't been said yet...

WARNING - long ramble:

First of all the good graphics crap game issue:
Surely Game graphics are only good to the extent that they work
within the context of the game.
The graphics in tetris(original GB version) are excellent!!! - they
do exactly what is required. Their simplicity also points toward the
origins of the game. If fancy hi-tech graphics had been used they
would have detracted from the purity of the concept. And Tetris is
pure concept...

Anything that is not actively helping is getting in the way!!

  !(low-tech == crap graphics)
Just because the graphics in a game are technically simple dosn't
mean that they're crap, some early games have been used as examples
of good game with crap graphics. This is bull!! Defender as an
example HAS GOOD GRAPHICS, the dynamic action on screen when an
expert is playing is a joy and beats the graphic hell out of many
modern 'slick' 'realistic' 3d games (not to mention the sound). Old
vector hardware can be a thing of beauty - the oscilloscope
aesthetic - Tempest - mmm yummy. The limitations of early hardware
pushed the designers, and as any good artist knows limitations can be
a blessing in disguise.

I'm not saying that modern hi-tech 3d graphics cannot be great, more
that its not the technology that is important, but the artistry, and
if thats good it will trancend the technology and the genre.

Talking of genre ;),
the whole 'original genre' thing is IMO a red herring!  Genres are
for marketing managers and reviewers (and suckers). I think if you
developed a truly new and original genre no one would get it,
(actualy I'm pretty certain of this) and if you build generic genre
conforming games they will always be less than great.

A great rule of thumb I picked up for 'originality' factor is the 70%
rule.  I got this from a book on Jazz improvisation, but it applies
to painting, cooking, 170bpm techno, video games.. etc.
When folk listen to music, they relate what they're hearing to their
personal knowledge of music. They will expect the tune to go a
certain way following the rules of its 'genre'. When the tune
deviates from the rules, it is unexpected and exites the ear/brain...
The guy(Jerry Coker) recommends that when you perform your jazz solo,
you should try to play what people expect about 70% of the time, and
surprise them 30% of the time.
If you play what they expect more than this, the audience will get
bored, if you get too original it gets 'difficult'(to alien) and they
lose interest.
I think games are similar, a game will be most popular if it takes
what the target audience already knows and changes about 30% to
somthing new. Add some new elements, take out some old ones and
upgrade some others, combine elements from a different genre in a new
way. If this has happened with the right balance you'll get a hit
(assuming that the coding /graphics/ sound are up to spec). People
will be sucked in by the game, always wanting to know whats going to
happen next, but still feeling at home with the overall concept. If
the interface is somewhat new, the differences should be introduced
at a pace that fits with the rule - many good games do this by
allowing an ingame character to 'teach' you a new skill, or sell you
a power-up... just as you're about to get bored with the game
mechanics, they change slightly...
Of course the best games happen when this all falls into place
without having to plan it, but rules like this are a good way to work
out whats wrong with your latest greatest...
Easier said... I try to remember that as the developer/designer, what
seems boring and old hat to me after I've play-tested it to death
might be very new and exciting to the game-playing public.  Its
difficult to get a true perspective. This is why its not so easy for
1 or 2 folk to build a hit game concept, graphics, sound, etc. Much
less difficult when there's a producer, art director, programmers,
designers :)


more waffle...
bear with me, I just have to waffle my tuppence on cut-scenes also...

IMO Cut scenes, when used sparingly can add dramatic impact and help
to punctuate the games plot at crucial moments, also alowing the
player to relax for a moment and bask in some glory before the next
battle...
the zelda series  - links awakening, ocarina of time etc. do this
superbly.
Cut scenes can also be crap, and often seem to be used just to please
marketing by pushing the license - screen shots on the web or in a
mag can have pre-rendered quality...
I guess if you keep them 70/30, they'll be ok ;-)

ok, sorry - thats enough rambling for now,

cheers,

col.

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