> "John Q. Pretentious" <johnisaheadcase@...> wrote:
>
> > I think it's so that N's games can be stronger in the pimp-force than
> > mere outsider titles.
>
> Only if gamers are into shiny things (which the early non-gamma-
> corrected titles can't easily provide).

Or big games. Yes, large cart space is likely to be used more for eye-candy
than anything else. But anyone who's played angband or nethack knows that
game rules systems can easily stretch into multiple megabyes, and if you
were to *just* put tiles in that game, but had 8-direction views like DooM
did, I'd be willing to wager that you could break 8 megabytes without
difficulty.

In the meantime, you seem to be forgetting that for console games, Eye Candy
can be *the* difference in sales. Therefore, this is a big deal, whether
it's aimed at eye candy or not. Kids are notoriously easily impressed by
flashy things.

> I've seen some good stuff crammed
> into 8 megabits (i.e. 1 megabyte) especially on Sega Genesis, with
> titles such as Sonic 2, Zero Wing, and Gunstar Heroes.

Yep. And I wrote a 7k tetris app for DOS. That doesn't mean that the extra
space can't be used for less than shallow things.

Yes, I know it always seems to be. But we can fix that.

> It all depends
> on how resourcefully the artists can use a limited tile set, how well the
> programmers can optimize their compression, and how well the system
> can synthesize music in real time (Genesis had an FM chip and used
> ROM-hogging PCM only for some complex instruments and the
> "Sega" choir in the intro screen).

And how big your game is. Don't forget Angband. 2.3 megabytes of no
graphics, almost no sound, and certainly no cutscenes.

> > That said, no, it's not an issue of cost: The big N is not allowing
anyone
> > to produce games larger than 8m, and won't even let themselves release
and
> > >16m games. Those limits are due to shift in a few months, I'm told, to
N
> > w/ 32m and outside developers getting 16m carts.
>
> Now by "8m" are we talking megabits, megabytes, or megawords?
> THQ's Tetris(R) Worlds is 32 megabits or 4 megabytes.

Sorry. 8 megabyes is the outsider limit - 1/4 of the max addressable size.
N's limiting themselves to 16megabytes right now. Like I said, both limits
are due to be doubled soon (sorry, I don't know better than "a couple of
months"), giving outsiders 1/2 space, and N use of the full space.

> > > how else are Nintendo supposed to keep
> > > their games one step ahead of everyone else's? :0)
> >
> > By hiring better programmers and game designers. When Microsoft
> > did this by obscuring certain useful parts of the Windows 98 API, people
> > were up in arms. They have enough clout to spank us through fair play.
> > I think they ought to.
>
> Before you make a hasty comparison to Microsoft's practices,
> remember that Microsoft makes game consoles now.

Why? The comparison stands. It wasn't hasty at all. In fact, if Microsoft
were to do this with the X-Box, SlashDot would be on fire, right now.

> > Heh. That's what I get for thinking this is an all-amateur list.
>
> Some of us are just used to nesdev and the like, which are all-amateur.

<nods>

> Or better yet to learn to write your reply directly under what you're
> replying to and cut out what you're not. See also
> http://www.google.com/search?q=usenet+top-posting

That's not always an option. For instance, I post from work, where I'm
required to use Outlook. It's a pain in the ass with Outlook if you're
using HTML mail, because the quoted message line *just* *won't* *break*.

Besides, that's stylistic. While I and most conscious individuals agree
with you, it's not a definate point. The extra copies of ads I get from
Yahoo! footers, on the other hand, seem pretty hard to defend.

- Fatzilla


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