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Hardware 3D on GBA ?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #7160 of 15019 |
Hi all,

We all know now that GBA isn't quite able of doing hardware-rendered 3D
scenes for games, as the viedo chipset is only aimed at 2D.
With software 3D rendering, one can manage to get around 50000 polygons /
second (if I can remember well the figures), which is really not enough for
a big, real 3D game.

So my question is, does anyone think it would be possible to incorporate
some kind of 3D video chipset in a cart, which would do the render of scenes
and blit it awesomely fast on the screen, for example in mode 3 or 4 ?

Let me explain.
Aperture size for cartidge is 32 Mb. So what if one uses, for example, 28 Mb
for the cartidge ROM, and the 4 last Mb would be to transmit data to what
I'd call the "3D chipset" in the "special cart" ?
As I see it, the "3D chipset" would work like this :
- On the first bytes of its address space, we have some controls (such as :
position of the camera for drawing, chipset enabled, chipset bliting etc.)
in read and / or write states.
- On the next Mbs the user would have to DMA the scene polygons data, and
then the texture data. The same data may remain for several frames
(background, wals etc.) or may be for just one frame (3D moving objects
etc.).
- The "3D chipset" would then do, when ordered (one control bit for "render"
maybe), the blitting of the resulting scene on the GBA display. The
rendering shall be made by the "3D chipset" without halting the GBA cpu (of
course).

As I don't know anything about electronics, I'm just wondering if such a
chip is only an utopia or may be madeable. What do you think about it ? Does
anything similar exist for another game system ?

Regards,

Mathieu -- The Night Howler







Mon Oct 1, 2001 7:13 pm

Night-Howler@...
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Message #7160 of 15019 |
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Hi all, We all know now that GBA isn't quite able of doing hardware-rendered 3D scenes for games, as the viedo chipset is only aimed at 2D. With software 3D...
The Night Howler
Night-Howler@...
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Oct 1, 2001
7:57 pm

Silly thought - but was the super nes capable? (without the FX chip) Now, in my eyes, the GBA is a souped up/enhanced snes, and seeing that it could just about...
D Green
fbs@...
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Oct 2, 2001
7:54 am

the GBA is more than capable of doing a doom style 3D game using nothing but its own hardware coupled with some tight code! as for the superFX chip - the GBA...
ninge
ninge@...
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Oct 2, 2001
8:59 am

... Does ... the SuperFX from the SNES anyone?? [joke] I understand 3DFX are going cheap:-) Stay Lucky, Graham "Mournblade" Reeds. ICQ: 30514803 ...
Graham Reeds
grahamr@...
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Oct 2, 2001
7:54 am

That's pretty much the key word 'Tight' code. If you really try hard to get an incredibly smooth piece of code, you can do pretty much anything. People seem to...
Mike Watts
starboy@...
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Oct 2, 2001
11:21 am

... Hash: SHA1 ... That is something i would LOVE to see :), one of the best games ever made. - -- Tom "Tomahawk" Badran Department of Computing, Imperial...
Tom Badran
tb100@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:21 pm

Hi, I agree entirely. The problem is that because of the ease of development in C/C++ not a vast amount of people have, or more likely are given the time to ...
Francis Lillie
francis_lillie@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:21 pm

Hello Mike, Tuesday, October 02, 2001, 1:11:13 PM, you wrote: MW> That's pretty much the key word 'Tight' code. If you really try hard to get MW> an incredibly...
groepaz
groepaz@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:22 pm

... You might like to take a look at http://www.cjpinder.clara.co.uk/elite.html - that's a "port" of the original BBC elite into C code (reverse engineered...
Richard Munn
benjymous@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:22 pm

Hello The, TNH> So my question is, does anyone think it would be possible to incorporate TNH> some kind of 3D video chipset in a cart, which would do the...
groepaz
groepaz@...
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Oct 2, 2001
12:05 pm

Very true, the AGB is a *very* fast bit of kit. I'm used to coding low level for the old Atari ST, where a decent mod player would take 20-25%+ CPU time. I...
James Boulton
jim@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:20 pm

... Ah, well, you can download the source to an open source elite clone which is pretty much 100% faithful to the original (based on the BBC source code). It's...
James Boulton
jim@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:30 pm

... Hash: SHA1 h, well, you can download the source to an open source elite clone which ... Where from? - -- Tom "Tomahawk" Badran Department of Computing,...
Tom Badran
tb100@...
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Oct 3, 2001
11:12 am

YES!!! Well said. All it takes is real effort. ;) ... From: "Mike Watts" <starboy@...> To: <gbadev@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 02,...
Daniel
webmaster@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:46 pm

Weird, I've found the opposite, I'm on commercial and private GBA products and find it far easier to spend a good amount of time just hammering away at ASM for...
marcus lynn
marcus@...
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Oct 2, 2001
1:46 pm

Well, maybe I just work for the wrong people. I just get no time to optimise or rewrite in ASM at all. Mores the pity. I loved writing in ASM. Amiga, SNES,...
Francis Lillie
francis_lillie@...
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Oct 2, 2001
2:26 pm

... Ah! The good 'ole Novatel! That brings back a few memories - hehe!...
Chaz Bocock
chaz@...
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Oct 2, 2001
11:18 pm

It's just a pity we have no divide in the ARM instruction set. Even in the old days of fixed point maths under DOS there wasn't that problem. Best, Andy ...
Andrew Cox
andrew.h.cox@...
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Oct 2, 2001
4:58 pm

Elite did a rather fine job on the BBC with not a hardware divide in sight, or a hardware multiply for that matter. At least the ARM has a multiply so a good...
Dave Murphy
davem@...
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Oct 2, 2001
5:09 pm

Yeah, but even that wouldn't be so great a problem if only they'd done a HW divide like on the SNES. That came in VERY handy for Worms on the SNES. Bu then...
Francis Lillie
francis_lillie@...
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Oct 2, 2001
5:18 pm

... If it was possible on Snes with SuperFX (Starfox, Vortex, etc...) I don't see why it shouldn't be on AGB. Problem will be shifted on the lasting of...
Davide Inglima - lima...
limacat@...
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Oct 2, 2001
5:00 pm

Also, the SuperFX ran at around 11 Mhz if I remember correctly. Frio ... From: Davide Inglima - limaCAT [mailto:limacat@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 02,...
Francesco Iorio
francescoi@...
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Oct 2, 2001
5:18 pm

... That would imply that any add-on chip would suck way too much energy... and that we should rely on Gba capabilities only :( * Please note: silly dreams...
Davide Inglima - lima...
limacat@...
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Oct 3, 2001
8:27 pm

... Ah, why is that a problem?! It's not difficult to implement a divide... That's defeatism at it's best! :) --Jim...
James Boulton
jim@...
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Oct 2, 2001
5:18 pm

But just about every problem that requires divides can be achieved with reciprical tables of some sort, written 2 3D engines on it and so far haven't really...
marcus lynn
marcus@...
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Oct 2, 2001
5:19 pm

Yeah, a reciprocal is what you are after for projection (which was the main thing on my mind). An idea I have is to polish a best-guess at the reciprocal which...
Andrew Cox
andrew.h.cox@...
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Oct 2, 2001
11:12 pm

hmm, from what i ve seen so far, i'd say elite/x-wing style games (flat filled poly worlds) and doom/wolf engines (vert/horiz scan line renderers) are entirely...
Morten Pedersen
escapekey@...
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Oct 2, 2001
11:16 pm

In message <01ca01c14b7b$cddd0840$0500a8c0@esc1200> ... a standard texturemapper fetching the texture data from rom takes 10.5 cycles per pixel. ... actually...
Dennis Ranke
exoticorn@...
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Oct 4, 2001
8:13 am

I'm *thinking* of doing an OpenGL compliant 3D library for the GBA. Prob simply called 'OpenGLA' (well maybe). What do people think. Would it be worth me...
Jamie Stanley
jamie@...
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Oct 3, 2001
8:27 am
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