Dear Kong Xian Mu [original Msg#2060 at end of post],

The 'best' party is the one you like the most. I love missile
weapons and my favorite "Return of Kra'an" (MSRK) party is now
ARCHER, TROGLODYTE, THIEF, NECROMANCER, SORCERER.

Spoiler...........................................................



Spoiler...........................................................



Spoiler...........................................................



Spoiler...........................................................




However the best Munchkin (Note 1) party (kill all the monsters, take
their treasure) is quite different. If you scroll down and look at
the repost of Msg #606 below you will see how I felt about the
Munchkin party Tue Jan 22, 2002. Many of these ideas are still
accurate.

However, while working on my Dragon Bane 2 Engine Adventure (DB2EA),
I have discovered that MSRK is heavily biased to melee fighters.

The best 1st level Munchkin party is KNIGHT, DWARF, THIEF,
NECROMANCER, SORCERER, GRIZZLY.

Melee fighters (high STR) do lots of damage (hand weapons get
+1 per STR over 20).
Their high STR lets them use the best armor so they take less
damage.
Most attack group melee weapons (STR) do better damage than
the equivalent attack group missile weapons (DEX). INQUISITOR+*'s
maximum damage is 70 while the BOW OF DESTRUCTION+*'s maximum damage
is 52.
Most handweapons do physical damage instead of fire or magic.
So even monsters with high fire or magic resistance will still take
maximum damage from your handweapons.
There are more handweapons in the MSRK than missile weapons.
You don't even have to use NEAR FOE on monsters further way
than 10 feet, just use ADVANCE (Note 1.5), there is no equivalent
RETREAT for missile characters.
In addition most monster in MRSK are melee monsters and will
advance on their own if pushed further away, while few monsters are
missile based and will retreat from the party.
Melee characters have the best hit points.
The THEIF/ DWARF's BELLIGERENCE lets your handweapons and
SHEOLANs attack twice per turn. Comparing handweapons attacking
twice per turn versus any missile weapon, and missile weapons are
wimpy (Note 2).
Equipping PLATE OF COURAGE (STR 24), SUPERIOR GAUNTLETS (STR
26), SHIELD OF COURAGE (STR 31) give you a bonus STR +10, for an
additional 10 points damage per hit with a handweapon.

DWARF/ SORCERER spells HEART OF COURAGE (STR +4) and MARK OF
THE VALIANT (STR +8) are nice for an extra +4 or +8 points of
damage. Also if you melee character needs 6 more levels to use a
SWORD OF RETRIBUTION (STR 40), equip the TITAN'S HAMMER (STR 34 [Note
3]) but carry the sword with you, then during combat cast MARK OF THE
VALIANT and the melee character can use the sword for that combat.

DWARF is immune to daze, poison, insanity.
DWARF gets innate MAGIC COMPASS, a very useful spell.
DWARF gets BELLIGERENCE, STEALTH, SAVING THROW
DWARF gets HEART OF COURAGE, MARK OF THE VALIANT

THIEF gets BELLIGERENCE, INVISIBILITY, STEALTH, SAVING THROW
THIEF actually improves your change to find an item after a
combat and increases how much gold you find after a combat.

NECROMANCER gets GRIZZLY and GHOST OF KAELAN.
GRIZZLY and KAELAN do nice damage, while WIZ WALL and ANIMATED
SWORD are wimpy.

SORCERER's heal spells are incredibly efficient.
SORCERERs have access to CURE DAZED, CURE POISON, CURE
INSANITY.
SORCERERs get MYSTICAL ARMOR, AURA OF FORTUNE, KAELAN'S
BLESSING, IQTAR'S MAGIC COAT
SORCERERs gets HEART OF COURAGE, MARK OF THE VALIANT
For fighting boss monsters like RAAMTHA, SORCERERs can use
mage weapons like LIGHTNING STAFF (maximum damage 55, range 70 feet),
SPIRIT MASTER (attack group, maximum damage 50, range 70 feet), WAND
OF REST (heal party of all hitpoint damage).

Any time you get a potion that improves AC, hitpoints,
stamina, magic resistance, fire resistance, spell points, or
intelligence, give it to your SORCERER. If you get a choice,
increase stamina. As long as your SORCERER is alive and has
spellpoints left he can heal the rest of your party and even bring
characters back from the dead.

The best 5th level Munchkin party is KNIGHT, DWARF, THIEF,
WIZARD, SORCERER, KAELAN.
The best 9th level Munchkin party is KNIGHT, DWARF, THIEF,
WIZARD, SORCERER, IQTAR.

Once you reach 5th level, put the NECROMANCER in an INN and
switch to the WIZARD. Return to the INN when KAELAN dies and
continue to use the NECROMANCER to summon GHOST OF KAELAN, until the
WIZARD reaches 9th level and gets SUMMON THE IQTAR. The IQTAR and
SHEOLAN are powerful melee monsters. While the WINDMAGE is nice for
healing, most times your SORCERER will not use up all his
spellpoints. The powers of the FIRE ELEMENT are nice but there are
few encounters were FLAME ARC is useful. In addition FIRE ELEMENT's
14th level cannot compare to the SHEOLAN's 18th level for hitting
those hard to hit monsters. Since SHEOLAN only get melee attacks
(maximum melee damage 153/ attack), they always attack twice per turn
under BELLIGERENCE, unlike the FIRE ELEMENT (maximum melee damage 63/
attack) who only gets one attack per turn with STUN, FIREBALL, and
FLAME ARC.

The best WIZARD group spell is STONES (WIZARD gets at 5th
level) for maximum of 27 points of physical damage for 6 spellpoints
or 4.5 points of damage per spellpoint. The best WIZARD attack spell
for one opponent is LIGHTNING BOLT (WIZARD gets at 9th level) for
maximum of 55 points damage (39 physical, 8 fire, 8 magic) for 9
spellpoints or 6.1 points of damage per spellpoint. Use STONES
against two or more opponents (two opponents is 9 points of damage
per spellpoint) and LIGHTNING BOLT against single opponents. Since
most combats last more than one turn, there is no need to use any
other WIZARD attack spells since they do not cause as much damage per
spellpoint. The exception is INTERVENTION when the party is low
hitpoints, dazed, poisoned, insane, and the SORCERER is low on
spellpoints or insane. DISPELL -- and at low levels DISBELIEVE -- is
an inexpensive way to get rid of monsters summoned by other monsters.

The best 13th level Munchkin party is KNIGHT, DWARF, THIEF,
TROGLODYTE, SORCERER, SHOELAN.

Once you reach 13th level, put the WIZARD in an INN and switch
to the TROGLODYTE (especially JERVOSS). Return to the INN when
SHEOLAN dies and continue to use the WIZARD to summon BIND SHOELAN.
Use HEART OF QUICKNESS (DEX +4) and MARK OF THE NIMBLE (DEX +8) as
needed so TROGLODYTE can use the best missile weapons. The DOUBLE
CROSSBOW has a maximum damage of 67 while the BOW OF DESTRUCTION+*'s
maximum damage is 52 (36 physical, 8 fire, 8 magic against a group of
monsters).

TROGLODYTE have access to CURE DAZED, CURE POISON, CURE
INSANITY. CURE INSANITY is important since an INSANE SORCERER cannot
cast CURE INSANITY on himself.
TROGLODYTE get innate REVELATION.
TROGLODYTE get MYSTICAL ARMOR, AURA OF FORTUNE, KAELAN'S
BLESSING, IQTAR'S MAGIC COAT
TROGLODYTE regen hitpoints every 16 ticks.
TROGLODYTE gets better hitpoints and armor than ARCHER.

The best Munchkin party to fight KRA'AN is KNIGHT, DWARF
(1st), DWARF (2nd), WIZARD, SORCERER, SHOELAN.

Give the two DWARF lots of SUNFRUIT (regen 40 spellpoints) for
BELLIGERENCE. DISPELL and SHOELAN are good for dealing with GREATER
DEMONs. Give the KNIGHT some SUNFRUIT for NEAR FOE for when you
cannot ADVANCE because a GREATER DEMON did not DISPELL last round.
INTERVENTION is handy for healing the party if you do not have WAND
OF RESTs for the WIZARD and the SORCERER. WAND OF ATTRACTION and
WAND OF DEMENTIA can be handy. If you want, you can swap the two
DWARFs for two THIEFs. But the DWARFs have better hit points, AC,
and handweapons.

Sincerely yours,
NEFTF

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonBaneII/message/606

Msg #606
"Playing by the Numbers" or Re: Best Party...?
--- In DragonBaneII@yahoogroups.com, "nukem0from0twenty0feet"
<Cyb0Au0Dragon215@A...> wrote:
> > I miss the high power creatures that the necromancer can summon,
> but
> > I don't miss his spells too much. In most cases, they did so
little
> > damage and healing that it didn't matter. I'm sure a high level
one
> > would be a blast though...
>
> In Dragon Bane 1, I used a Dwarf, Archer, Thief, Sorcerer, Wizard
and
> regretted it when I met Kra'an.
>
> In Dragon Bane 2 I made myself take a Knight, even though I didn't
> like it, but the addition of group attack melee/ missile weapons
> makes the Knight and Archer more useful at higher levels.
>
> I took the Archer because of those annoying single monsters that
hang
> out of range and cast nasty spells at your party.
> <The heroes should have all the cool spells- just kidding, no fun
> without annoying Guardians and Enemy Sorcerers>.
>
> Thief or Dwarf is handy for charm spells but adventuring without
the
> Thief's Pick Lock would not be fun. I like the Alchemy and
> Materialize spells. The Thief is also decent with melee and
missile
> weapons. I dislike the Confuse and Berserk spells because they are
> not cost effective, but they are the easiest way to take out single
> spell casting monsters or fire breathers from a distance. I rarely
> use Trap Zap.
>
> Sorcerer is a must for an easy dungeon crawl, I never leave home
> without one in either version of the game. Even if he is just
> casting Open Portal, healing and defensive spells, he frees up your
> Wizard/ Necromancer to battle the creatures with his spell points.
> He is also useful later for using magic items such as Wands of
> Attraction, Wands of Dementia, Horns of Fear, Horns of Freezing,
> Spirit Master and eventually a Magic Bow+*.
>
> I love the damage Wizard spells do, but my biggest problem in
Dragon
> Bane 1 was recharging in dungeons. I was dubious about the
> necromancer's spells, but thought I would give him a whirl. At
high
> levels, I do like him better than the Wizard. Ghost of Kaelan
casts
> protection spells, Wind Mage heals the party, and Fire Elemental
> confuses opponents. I never use the Necromancer for healing, the
> Sorcerer is a better bet based on points healed per spell point.
> Heal Party has a maximum healing of 29 hit points per spell point.
> But against the right opponents, Mana Spirit and Death's Blessing
can
> recharge the Thief's spell points. In the Tower levels, the Archer
> and the Necromancer combined can recharge the entire party in just
> one combat.
>
> Necromancer Tips
>
> Recharging
>
> Individual opponent 10' to 40' away
> Sun Sprite, 3rd level, Damage 0/6/16, Max Recharge 14 SP- 22
damage,
> Cost 8 SP
> Group opponent 10' to 60' away, 3 or more individual in same group
> Life Vortex, 3rd level, Damage 12/0/10, Max Recharge Varies (3
> monsters 35 SP- 66 damage), Cost 16 SP
> Group opponent 70' away, 2 or more individual in same group
> Death's Blessing, 4th level, Damage 20/0/20, Max Recharge Varies (2
> monsters 40 SP- 80 damage), Cost 22 SP
> Group opponent 10' to 70' away, 4 or more individual in same group
> Death's Blessing, 4th level, Damage 20/0/20, Max Recharge Varies (4
> monsters 80 SP- 160 damage), Cost 22 SP
>
> For Death's Blessing recharging purposes I usually keep my
Sorcerer's
> Dexterity 1 pt higher than my Necromancer's Dexterity. The
Sorcerer
> can cast heal spells on the party and then all of Death's Blessing
> recharging goes to spell points. When facing one group of melee
> monsters with bunches of individuals, (say one group of 6 Lizard
> Warriors or one group of 5 Giant Cobras) I use my Archer and Far
Foe
> every turn to keep them from hurting the party and then Death's
> Blessing to syphon off spell points.
>
> Maximum Damage per Spell Point
>
> Individual opponent 10' away
> Vampire, 1st level, Damage 3/0/3, Max Damage 6, Cost 2 SP
> Individual opponent 20' to 40'
> Sun Sprite, 3rd level, Damage 0/6/16, Max Damage 22, Cost 8 SP
> Note: not useful against fire resistant monsters, use Vampire, Mana
> Sprite or Spell Sprite Instead
> Individual opponent 50' to 60'
> Spell Sprite, 4th level, Damage 0/0/28, Max Damage 28, Cost 14 SP
> Note: not useful against magic resistant monsters, use Vampire,
Mana
> Sprite or Sun Sprite Instead
> Group opponent 10'- 70', 2 or more monsters
> Death's Blessing, 4th level, Damage 20/0/20, Max Damage Varies (2
> monsters, 80 damage), Cost 22 SP
> Individual opponent, magic and fire resistant, 10' to 20'
> Mana Sprite, 2nd level, Damage 5/0/7, Max Physical Damage 5, Cost 5
SP
>
> Spirit Master, Horn of Freezing, Wand of Attraction, Horn of Fear,
> Wand of Dementia, and Staff of Lightning are also useful additions
to
> the Necromancer's arsenal. Wand of Mana and Spirit Master are
> especial helpful when your party is running low on mana.
>
> Spoiler
>
> Spoiler
>
> Spoiler
>
> Sweet
>
> Sweet
>
> Also in "Return of Kra'an" you can swap party members at the
Castle,
> so you could start off with a Wizard and switch to a Necromancer or
> vice versa. No matter what, visit the Magic shop early and often.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonBaneII/message/2060

Msg#2060
Re: Best party combo?

--- In DragonBaneII@yahoogroups.com, "Kong Xian Mu" <mean_liar@h...>
wrote:
> In DB2, I as curious about what constitutes the 'best' party.
>
> From examining the Spell lists, it appears that although the
> Necromancer is cool, it seems more like an interesting class but
not
> really wroth taking.
>
> The Sorceror and Wizard seem indispensible.
>
> In DB1, there was a dearth of powerful melee weapons: at any
moment,
> there were plenty of powerful bows but only 1-2 powerful melee
> weapons available. Does this hold true in DB2? If so, then
> Knight/Trog/Archer seems best; if not, then Knight/Dwarf/Archer.
>
> And what of the Thief? Is he indispensible or only 'nice to
have'?
> It would be a shame to fill up a melee slot with a mediocre combat
> class.
>
> Any ideas?

Note 1) Steve Jackson Games has a funny cardgame based on Munchkin
gamers.

Note 1.5) Monsters can attack while you are advancing, but SORCERERs
can heal damage with few spellpoints. Also once you engage a monster
at 10 feet, if he RETREATS, he cannot attack that turn. So even
though the monster can attack when you ADVANCE, he already gave up
one attack when he RETREATED. If you have a melee character heavy
party, they probably have very low ACs, so the monster is less likely
to hit your characters than a missile character heavy party.

Note 2) A SWORD OF RETRIBUTION starts out with a maximum damage of
90 hit points per turn when a player can first use it, with
BELLIGERENCE it is 180 hit points per turn. In addition, you alway
have a minimum chance to hit of 5%. With BELLIGERENCE this becomes
9.75% (at least one attack hitting). TechnoMagic University will not
include BELLIGERENCE for these, and other, reasons. TechnoMagic
University will attempt to reduce the bias against missile weapons,
without creating a new bias against handweapons.

Note 3) TITAN'S HAMMER shows up as STR 38, but since it gives a
bonus STR +4, you only need STR 34 to use it.

End Spoiler...........................................................



End Spoiler...........................................................



End Spoiler...........................................................



End Spoiler...........................................................




FIN