Dear Patrick [original msg#1909 -- and HTML link -- at end of post
after repost of msg#1178 -- and HTML link],

I do not work for Mythological Software, however I will be releasing
an adventure with 19 classes in the future. I am currently fighting
with 16 and 4 shade graphics.

I like your idea of randomly generated characters, however, the
Dragon Bane 2 Engine (DB2E) is not designed to support random
character attributes, especially STR, DEX, INT, and STA. I am
reposting msg#1178 below where I discussed the issue with Simon --
random treasures and increasing character attributes, especially STR
and DEX.

Who can use equipment in DB2E depends solely on each character's
attributes (Note 1) -- see below msg#1178 about HATCHETS and
BUCKLERS. Because of this, each class starts with maximum STR, DEX,
INT, and STA (Note 2). Without upsetting game balance, you can
randomly generate lower attributes, but randomly generating higher
attributes unbalances the game (Note 3) -- see below msg#1178 for
random STR +1 and DEX +1 treasures.

Several spots in "Return of Kra'an" (MSRK) give you limited assess to
potions and fruits that give you +1 to STR, DEX, INT, and STA.

There are several ways to add random character generation to DB2E,
however, STR, DEX, INT and STA are crucial to game balance.

I wrote a special treasure room back in February 2002, with very long
motion scripts. In fact that is when Mythological Software first
told me about "island jumps". Fall 2002, I rewrote all offensive
spells, handweapons and ranged weapons. The special treasure room is
no longer possible, so I had to throw out the special treasure room
and weeks of work. I believe a DB2E mod community needs ideas like
yours. However, I don't want you spending a lot of time on an idea
you will throw out.

If you decide to go ahead with the random STR, DEX, INT and STA idea
anyway, I can give you a few tips on how to do it. Before finding
Simon's solution, I had a way for the party to buy elementals. After
finding Simon's solution I wrote the Conjurer special map square
(Note 4). Before eliminating 2 FURY characters, I had ideas for
limiting how many of the 4 FURY characters a party could have.

Sincerely yours,
NEFTF

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonBaneII/message/1178

Re: SSPD & DB2ACK Random Treasure
--- In DragonBaneII@yahoogroups.com, "neftf" <Cyb0Au0Dragon215@A...>
wrote:
> Dear Simon and other adventure designers,
>
> Simon, I like your fruit trees, but you may wish to modify them in
> the next release version of "Princess Demelza" (SSPD).
>
> Simon and adventure designers, if you look at "Return of Kra'an"
> (MSRK) you will see Mythological Software generally treats trees as
> hidden treasure chests. This is because fruit can be very
powerful.
> If you look at the gambling in SAMPLE2.MAP of the DB2ACK, not only
> does the party have to spend 1,000 Gold Pieces for a 1 in 10 chance
> for a potion or powerful fruit (SAPPY GOURD is STR +1 and SIGPLANT
is
> DEX +1), but after you win 3 times, the gambling is empty.
>
> The problem with random chance in a Dragon Bane 2 Engine Adventure
> (DB2EA) is that the player can save the game before your random
> chance opportunity, and keep playing it until they gets the results
> they desire. Using Simon's demo, SSPD, I have 3rd level characters
> who have so far gotten 3 SIGPLANTs and 9 SAPPY GOURDs from the
fruit
> trees in Darian Grove. Since armor and handweapons are based off
of
> STR, you should always consider carefully before placing a SAPPY
> GOURD in an adventure. Since Ranged weapons are based off of DEX
you
> should limit SIGPLANT opportunities. This is important because the
> SHOPPE will let a party purchase a piece of armor, a handweapon or
a
> ranged weapon they cannot use yet. For example a HATCHET requires
a
> STR 20 which normally limits it to a KNIGHT 1st level, DWARF 2nd
> level, THIEF 6th level, and an ARCHER 8th level. But with one
SAPPY
> GOURD a 1st level DWARF can use the HATCHET or a 5th level THIEF.
A
> BUCKLER requires a STR 18, this normally limits it to a KNIGHT 1st
> level, DWARF 1st level, THIEF 4th level, and an ARCHER 6th level.
> But with one SAPPY GOURD a 3rd level THIEF can use the BUCKLER or a
> 5th level ARCHER.
>
> The party can temporarily use a HATCHET in one combat with the
> SORCERER's STR+4/ +8 spells, but have to wait until they are the
> appropriate level before permanently equipping and getting the
item's
> bonus to attribute- such as a sword that is DEX +3. The party
cannot
> use the BUCKLER, since it must be equipped before combat, at all
> until the character is the appropriate level. Items that give
> bonuses while equipped- such as a shield that is STR +3 - are
> balanced by letting you equip only one type of equipment at a time
> such as one handweapon or one shield.
>
> Fruits that can easily be abused are SAPPY GOURD and SIGPLANT.
> SUNFRUITS are harder to abuse, mostly used against Boss Monsters
(the
> dragons in MSRK are boss monsters with KRA'AN being the biggest
> baddest boss monster in the adventure). Fruit that is seldom
abused
> is PORT MELON, CIPPER SQUASH, and ENCHANTED BERRIES. Fruit that is
> impossible to abuse is SWEET PICKLEBERRY and TART MELON.
>
> Simon, I hope this information helps you with your next release
> version and your next adventure after SSPD.
>
> Adventure designers, I hope this helps with your adventure
designing.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> NEFTF

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonBaneII/message/1909

Re: A question about DB2ACK

> Re: One more question, have you guys thought about having the user
> create their
> Re: own party instead of picking from already created users? This
is
> what I was
> Re: actually thinking about when I asked my question. I was going
to
> have a
> Re: place where you take your group and re-roll their attributes,
> based on a
> Re: fixed range and using the random number generator. Once you
got
> what you
> Re: liked, you then changed the users STR, DEX, INT, etc from the
> random numbers
> Re: you created. I just remember thinking of this from The Bard's
> Tale.

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Note 1) For those familiar with Dungeons and Dragons (1st, 2nd, 3rd
editions), D&D gets around this problem by using class restrictions.
For example a necromancer is barred from using full plate and a
fighter is barred from using a wand of healing. In DB2E a
necromancer gets full plate at a later level than a fighter. A
fighter gets to use a wand of healing at a later level than a
necromancer. STR goes knight 23, dwarf 19, thief 14. This means a
dwarf has to be 4 levels higher than a knight to use the same armor.
A thief has to be 9 levels higher to use the same armor. DB2E just
gives fighters higher STR, archers higher DEX and Sorcerers higher
INT.

"Note 1" also avoids the issue of weapon to hit and accuracy. Items
like armor, elemental conjuring devices and defensive spell devices
do not need to hit for them to be useful.

Note 2) In D&D you often roll 3d6 -- average 10.5 -- for each
attribute with a maximum of 18. DB2E gives every character 18s in
all attributes, then adjusts for class/race. DB2E combines
class/race into the class of the character.

Note 3) In D&D this would be the same as giving everyone in a 1st
level adventure straight 18's then adding a random 1d8 levels to the
characters. Remember, with saved games, in DB2E you can keep
rerolling until you get a character you like. If it was D&D this
system would cause lots of straight 18's characters that were 9th
level slaughtering lowly 1st level monsters.

Note 4) if you go to Yahoo! Groups and the Dragon Bane II forum, the
code for the Conjurer's special map square is posted there.

For elementals in my game, you originally entered a hallway and paid
a guard to open one of several rooms. One room for each elemental.
The door to each room warned you that you could not remove items from
the room. In the room was an unlimited treasure chest that gave you
a special item. The special item conjured an elemental. If you
tried to leave the room with the special item, the door special map
square took the special item away from you. Thus only the room you
paid for was opened, and only in the room could you summon the
matching elemental.

The FURY class gets STR & DEX faster than other classes. Upgrading
the FURY involved making sure the party only contained a special
guide character and a FURY -- blocking any other characters from
entering the upgrade room. The two characters entered the upgrade
room where a higher level FURY joined the party. The party could not
leave the room except for the special guide character and the higher
level FURY. However, the room contained an INN -- I think it was
number 7 -- were the lower level FURY could be dropped off. Thus
customers could swap a low level FURY with STR 32 or STR 38 for a
higher level FURY with STR 69 or STR 99. Currently players cannot
have a low level FURY. The 9th Circle (level) FURY has STR 69 and
the 15th Circle (level) FURY has STR 99.